What setup would you choose? What turbo, ic, manifold, exhaust, tuning etc?

Rebuild, what pistons, rods, rings? Sleeves?

Go full custom or pick a kit? A kit without the tuning perhaps?

All info welcome, just researching for now......

Thx.


Modified by ee8T at 10:01 PM 6/29/2003

 

bump

 

350-400 wheel or crank hp?

Already built a 333 whp B16a.
Here's what I did (what I would do differently)

Simple engine stuff:
JE 9:1 pistons
Crower rods
Crower cam (not necessary)
Cam Gears to get the cams 'in-time' exactly per cam specs.


Turbo: Mitsu 18g (would have gone Garrett T3/To4e, better choices,
easier upgrade)

Engine Management: Honda PR3 with Hondata
550cc inj. (would have put in 720's, stopped at 333, ran injectors out)

Started with Greddy kit ended up doing so much hacking that now it's
almost custom. I would full custom now, except maybe the exhaust manifold.

LS transmission: Nice and long for 'real' street use.

Jeffrey Atwood

 

i am assuming you are still using the greddy kit.

however, what other things have you changed? intake manifold? what else?

I have a similar setup with arias 9.5 pistons eagle rods, and the greddy kit..
is this something that can see 300whp? im trying to shoot for it with 15 to 18 psi!

sorry for thread jacking

 

Jefnes...How much psi were you running to make 333whp? Im hoping for similar numbers but im running a t3/to4e 60 trim... Also you post on Vortex correct? i remember my brother (Leebro61) saying somthing about you making chips.

 

Turbo setup:

InlinePro manifold
Precision SC44 with .63ar turbine
custom exhaust
Hondata tuned

Engine:
10:1 JE's
RS sleeves
Manley rods
honda bearings

IMO custom is the only way to go.

 

what kind of intake manifold are you running on your setup??

 

Made 333whp on 18 psi.

The only thing left from the kit is the exhaust manifold, FMIC, and Turbo.

An external wastegate was fitted to the manifold and the inernal wasteagte on the
turbo was welded closed.

This how I would basically build a custom kit: get the parts you can't make yourself, or can't make well do the rest custom
(exahust mani, turbo, wastegate, IC)

Yep, I make VW Motronic chips, and custom tune VW's, Hondata, AEM EMS, e-manage, just about anything...

Jeffrey Atwood

 

K, thx for so far.......

Im thinking bout doing something like this: (maybe some diff parts but to give an idea)

-Full race kit/ garrett t3/04
-JE pistons, Eagle rods, Total Seal rings, ARP studs
-Maybe AEM EMS or something like that
-Darton sleeves
-Minor head work, spring and some minor polish, just freshen the head up

Boosting daily at bout 14/15psi..........track about 18psi......

What about this? Any comments? Do's and donts?

Now I have the Greddy kit. Want something different, 6psi stock engine just aint it...

 

If you want some eagle rods I've got some for sale. $310 shipped and they're new.

 

comments on your 'pics'

From my experience....

Since you have the Greddy kit already, just keep it...
The 18G is good to ~375whp. No need for a biggger laggy turbo,
hell the 18G spools at 4500 already. (9K redline)
anymore lag will get you 'caught off gaurd' when under 5K....

you don't need sleeves to run 18psi.

AEM EMS or Hondata either are good, but the Hondata using the Honda ecu has
two complete maps for one each cam, where the AEM has a just an additional
'nitrous' table that you can use for V-tec cam fueling.

Just freshen the head, no 'extra' work required at this power level.
(no porting and polishing, think cost to beneifit ratio here)

Tune for 18 psi...run 18 psi all the time.
(I don't understand this whole 'dual step' boost set-up, if your engine is built to
handle the power and you have to tune it anyway, why not just use the power
you have)

Jeffrey Atwood

 

About the 18g, heard something about the efficiency of turbo's. And dont know really how that turbo will behave at higher boostlevels......You say it will run just fine at 18psi? No need te get a bigger turbo for that boost level?

The way you say it, I will just have to build the engine, pistons and rods, dont need sleeves, tune the thing and I can run say 18 psi safe and get around 350 out of it?

I will just freshen up the head, cleaning the port and some springs maybe, things like that. The cost vs benifit thing did cross my mind......

 

the 18G is 'spec' to make upto 375 hp. Bascially designed for use with the Eclipse
2.0L

So you can safely run 'almost' whatever it takes to make this much power...

I'm sure that if you had a 1L engine and needed like over ~35psi of boost you
would be outside the 'good' efficiency area. Or a 5L engine running ~5 psi.

If you can get there on 17-19 psi I am sure that you are 'inside' the efficient area of the turbo. The eclipse guys push more boost on this turbo than we have
to because Honda heads just flow better.....

I installed a block guard too. If you don't plan/need to re-bore
don't install a guard, the guard REQUIRES a re-bore.

BTW 18psi isn't 'high' boost in the land of FI. It just seems high to us coming from
NO boost.

Anyway a 'bigger' turbo will just be more laggy, you'll have to do lots of
work to get a Garrett to bolt up where your Mutsi does now.

The only 'bolt-in' options are other mistu turbos, and those are WAY over priced.
like a non-BB 20G, I have seen prices quoted over $1g.

Jeffrey Atwood

 

Owkee, thanx.

Does anyone have efficiency diagrams form an 18g and a Garret t3/t04?

But, would you either install a blockguard or resleve it? Or will it depand on the state of my current cilinders? If they are in good shape, you dont have to re-bore?

What will be better for maybe future more boost plans, sleves or guard?

And what exactly do you meen with bold up? Fitting the turbo to the manifold? Manifold to head?

 

here's my B16 setup hoping for 400-450 this week

B16a
JE 9.0:1
Crover Rods
Nuformz Blockgaurd
Siemens 720cc injectors
Hondata 2B w/P28

Precision SC 606376
APEXI Skyline GTR core
custom equal length manifold <---- http://www.rpiracing.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PRojectSi2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here's my B16 setup hoping for 400-450 this week

B16a
JE 9.0:1
Crover Rods
Nuformz Blockgaurd
Siemens 720cc injectors
Hondata 2B w/P28

Precision SC 606376
APEXI Skyline GTR core
custom equal length manifold &lt;---- http://www.rpiracing.com</TD></TR></TABLE>

Better hope you have an excellent tuner...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ee8T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Owkee, thanx.

Does anyone have efficiency diagrams form an 18g and a Garret t3/t04?

But, would you either install a blockguard or resleve it? Or will it depand on the state of my current cilinders? If they are in good shape, you dont have to re-bore?

What will be better for maybe future more boost plans, sleves or guard?

And what exactly do you meen with bold up? Fitting the turbo to the manifold? Manifold to head?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, I have no 'map' of the 18g, only its design rating. ~375 hp

If you install a block guard you are REQUIRED to re-bore.
If you ever blew the ring-lands on your stock pistons there are probably
some good scuffs in the cylinder walls, this REQUIRES a re-bore.
I installed a block guard and blew the stock piston ringlands so I re-bored
for 81.5mm pistons.

If you plan to build it 'right' just plan a re-bore. Install the guard, get the pistons and then bore to specification. (from Piston maker)
Get the smallest pistons that will do the job, no need to remove
excess material that you want for strength. Aslo now you have a hand assembled
motor so you KNOW (if you engine guy is any good) everything is 'correct',
bearing clearance, bolt torques, piston-cylinder clearances, valve train etc...

The only reason to sleeve is if you have cracked the OE sleeves. (I doubt it,
other stuff breakes before these do) OR for BIG power, and ~350whp isn't 'BIG'.

Future plans: the future is now, my friend. Build the engine with one plan in mind
and stick to it. 'Later' upgrades will require you to change EVERYTHING else
anyway so 'max' out your set-up now.
example: (the way I did it) I had 550cc
injectors, so I picked eveything around this limitation: ~325whp.
Why tune to 11-12 psi for 'street' and 18psi 'track'? Since you have to build the motor to handle the 18psi anyway. Why not run 18psi whenever you want to...

How much boost do you 'need' to run in the future anyway?
Get your car down to the sub-2100lb neighborhood and you'll see that ~325whp
is enough to take anything on 4 wheels... (I have a CRX its easy)

If you want to run 720cc inj then just build it to take all the fuel, ~440 whp.
Tune it once and be done. Sure you don't need to run max boost all the time,
but now you 'can' if you want, without worry. This means, picking the right turbo to...

Now for me to go 'to the next level' I need bigger injectors, a bigger turbo,
new intake plumbing, a bigger intercooler and I need to re-tune it. Basically
its 'another' project.

The key is 'balance' why spend the time, money or effort for a BIG power
turbo only to put it on a 'stock' engine and you can't use it?
Don't buy 1000cc inj if you have a 50 trim T3 from a SAAB.
Don't sleeve the motor to run just 10psi of boost.

As far as 'bolt-in': I mean you can't just swap out your 18g for a Garrett turbo
because it won't bolt up to the manifold and your existing exhaust plumbing.

Jeffrey Atwood


Modified by Jefnes at 3:51 PM 7/7/2003

 

Jefnes, what kind of Intake manifold do you reccomend for a b16 making no more than 350whp and revving no higher than 9500? Stock, type R, skunk2? and what TB

 

Stock man, stock TB....save your dough

I can add 1-2 psi of boost to 'beat' those mods.
(these kinds of things should be LAST on your list)
Besides if you max out your injectors any better air flow is just
leaning the motor out.

If you want it for show, fine.
You may beat me in a drag race becuase you have a lighter wallet....

Or like one kid told me at a car show that it would flow better if polished the
OUTISIDE of the manifold....

Spend you money where it does the MOST good. get 'over-rated' parts,
rod, good for more than 350whp, Crower comes to mind.
Pistons get nice 9:1 or 8.8:1 compression forged, JE comes to mind.
These things will last 'forever' with bascially good tuning.

Keep you build and your goals consevative and you'l be happy for
many many miles.

Jeffrey Atwood

 

Man, I really like the way you think Thanks for keeping it realistic and for writing that out... it's inspiring

 

i know i shouldnt say this but clubsi.com has some nice dynos and setups in the boost forum. some yield 500whp. check it out if your interested...

heres the link... http://forums.clubsi.com/showf...art=1