AFFIRMED

Alright I have like 1500 miles on the motor im reving to 9000 everything is built got springs retainers manly rods cp pistons benson block aem ems point being it can handle the power.Any way iv been driving it for about 3 months and have gotten on it plenty of times all the way to 9000 we street tuned it the a/f is good everything looks good. So I go to race a 750 gsxr pull him first race we went to about 160 I was on 17 psi so he wants to race again motor is running everything seems good so we run again, on 3rd gear I loose power I thought I blew a intercooler pipe but during the second race it felt like it was missing and this usually happenes when my plugs have had enough. So I tell him lets do it another day I start going home and I hear a ping as I drive more it gets worse so it dies and we tow it home I take the oil pan off and everything else and the # 1 and #4
rod bearing is out 2 & 3 is good. The story is so you get the whole picture. Has anyone had this problem before if so do you know what caused it. My oil pump is new everything is new all clarences were checked and good crank was checked and it was all good any info would be great thanks.

reaction360

damn, that sucks. My buddy showed me your post cuz it sounds just like my car back during the summer. only i raced an R6. and after the 3rd run, it started ticking..., spun #3 rod bearing.

i'm not sure exactly what caused this, guessing something with the oil, starvation etc...not sure. I was running eagle rods, je pistons and acl bearings. the motor had been running for over 8 months.

tegedrex

Yeah we had figured it had to do with oil starvation more than likey due to the toasted bearings. The question is by what means was it starved, the pump had less then 1500 miles so what could be an explanation? BTW the first race was sick

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

same thing happen to me .. ****** sucks..

SlowReaction

I'll be sure not to try and race bike on the freeway haha. Sorry bout your motor though, I know how that feel. I killed my bearings in my old h22.

Boostage

U pulled the bike to 160?

NJIN BUILDR

It doesn't take much for a honda to run short on oil or aerate the oil.Your starting with only 4 or 5 quarts to begin with.If the oil return is high in the pan its adding air into the oil.Every spinning part is trying to foam the oil.A bend in the road at a hundred plus can g the oil up the side of the pan away from the pickup.If the oil temp starts getting over 270 it starts loosing its film strength.The oil pressure guage won't detect aerated oil but your rod bearings will know.Add in a touch of detonation from 17lbs of boost on what I assume is pump gas and its easy to hurt things.These things won't always show up in quick runs,but sustained runs of a few minutes can kill them.
Glenn

tegedrex

Yep he had him till about 160, the bike was in such disbelief

AFFIRMED

We were thinking kinda the same thing. also mybe the oil pump went out? Only had about 1500 miles 2000 max. thanks for the replies btw it could have been a little less than 160 but I doubt it I top out at 140 145 in 4th and I was well into 5th when we finally let off im running a ls tranny.

turbosi03

is everything else ok? so you only had to drop the pan replace the bearings and your all set?

christ another thing to worry about... so what could help prevent this? oil temp gauge, or an oil cooler, etc...?

servion

FYI, he was running 11.0:1 a/f and 17 degrees of timing with a t3/60-1 on pump gas with a 9:1 c/r ls/vtec (at 6000feet altitude). AEM EMS boost-comp tuned at 15psi.

There were pieces (little chunks) of the rod-bearings in the bottom of the oil pan, and a ton of tiny metal flakes. Hopefully he'll pull the motor and check out the mains this weekend.

stackz

most common reason new lower end bearings fail and spin is because people re-use a used crank without taking it and having it cleaned and polished.

without proper cleaning/polishing of a used crank you risk burrs, etc on the journal surface gouging into the new bearing surface during break-in. running it up to 9k within the first 1500 miles after a build repeatedly will only speed up this process, eventually the bearing will grab, break the holding tab, and it will spin with the crank. wont freeze to the crank but will spin with it.

and yes, you should clean/polish a used crank even if it looks smooth to the touch and you cant catch anything against it when you rub across with a sharp edge. microscopic tolerances require microscopic polishing.

hell, cleaning/polishing a crank is only about $60 anyway, no reason NOT to do if you spent as much money on all the other parts of the build.

W C L

who built the motor? was everyting measured and remeasured when assembly took place? i know its cold up in CO right so that has a great deal with measuring parts if not done at proper temps....

what type of bearings are they? 1500 miles on the motor was there any kidna break-in period? I have used 2 styles vacum break-in (i prefer) and normal driving of 1200-1500 miles before any high rpm's... i have never seen any problems and bearings have looked brand new with inspecting them.....

hope that helps a lillte bit to give u some ideas of could have casued it... tell donald i said whats up we go way back(elementry)

johnzm

lets think abuot this, it never happened before, and u were racing to high speeds on an interstate....... do you know how EGT's effect detonation??


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't take much for a honda to run short on oil or aerate the oil.Your starting with only 4 or 5 quarts to begin with.If the oil return is high in the pan its adding air into the oil.Every spinning part is trying to foam the oil.A bend in the road at a hundred plus can g the oil up the side of the pan away from the pickup.If the oil temp starts getting over 270 it starts loosing its film strength.The oil pressure guage won't detect aerated oil but your rod bearings will know.Add in a touch of detonation from 17lbs of boost on what I assume is pump gas and its easy to hurt things.These things won't always show up in quick runs,but sustained runs of a few minutes can kill them.
Glenn


</TD></TR></TABLE>


run clearences loose on booosted engines. i bet u were detonating, and had no idea.

tegedrex

What up Will See clearance issues were our first concern, but this was not even close to the first time after the build had he taken it up past 100+ mph and to 9000grand. It deff. had something to do with the oil or possibly a combination with detonation. BTW he used the vacuum method to break the motor in I believe. Also after the second run before he left to go home he noted the oil pressure was signifigantly lower, and right after was when he heard the knocking.

AFFIRMED

everything was measured and remeasured by myself and some help from tegedrex im confident it had nothing to do with the build of the motor. The crank was micro polished everything was cleaned before assembly. Rods new, pistons new, bearings new block just got back from benson, the head had the valves cut new springs retainers. Everything was new and check by a machine shop. I did not rev it past 7000 rpms till after 500 miles. Also before going to a higher rpm I did a compression test to make sure the rings had seated if I remember right it was (from 1 to 4) 160-160-155-160.

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegedrex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep he had him till about 160, the bike was in such disbelief </TD></TR></TABLE>


then your motor went out swinging, 21 gun salute!!

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Im curious what clearance did you use on the rod bearings? What kind of bearings? And did you say this was a new oil pump?

tegedrex

He used ACL's and it was a brand new OEM oil pump

W C L

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


then your motor went out swinging, 21 gun salute!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

hehehehe

Blurex

iTrader: (1)

Same exact thing here...Manley rods, CP pistons, GE sleeves, Acl Bearings, Springs and retainers, micro polished crank, type r oil pump(9000 rpm rev)...pulled away from and GSXR6...after he ran his mouth about how i was wasting his time asking him to race....he never saw the intercooler ...i was running 17psi on a sc61....after about 5 months and 4000+ boosted miles I eventually spun number 4 and the rod bolts snapped..it happened all to fast...i never heard it knock....but there was some color in the rod and crank from the spun bearing first.....i was actually slowing down and put it in fourth to help me slow down and about 6000 rpm i heard the loose gravel noise but i knew what had just happened...put a hole in the block and lost that rod and piston...everything else looks good....I think i may have been running to thin of oil 5w-30 syn...I changed the oil at 3000 and didn't see anything in the oil...but i not sure i assembled the motor myself..first one i ever did...o well here we go again....

AFFIRMED

hole in the block ouch I would be crying if I put a hole in my block. But I was planning on tearing it down before the season started and re-ringing it so I would have had to replace the berings anyway good luck with the build.