PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Ok so the long story short is that I picked up a Benson sleeved block with turbo tuff rods and JE pistons. I got the block for $800. I figured something was up with the block but the internals were what I was looking for and the block was fresh out of the machine shop so I bought it.

Talking tot he guy who put the block together, he said that the block was decked to much and the pistons are poking passed the deck. I planned on boosting this motor and just trying to see if the block can be salvaged or should I just get another block sleeved and reuse my internals? The builder said that he measured that it would need a Cometic 040" headgasket in order to work but I don't know if I trust a head gasket to hold the boost being so thick. I'm going to recheck the how much it's sticking up and also clay the motor. But if it's not worth it or going to lead to more trouble than it's worth I'd rather not use it. A shame. Right now it's got a LS rotating assembly with LS rods. Is there another combination I could use to drop the pistons back down and still use the LS rods and JE pistons? Any known solutions are appreciated. Ideally if I can move the head up with the gasket and be ok that is the route I will take. Maybe this would be better suited for a low boost or all motor application (which I also could use). I have read about the H series crowd mixing and matching parts and having this exact problem with use of H22 pistons or something. That particular thread was an all motor build however and not one for boost.

JRCivic1

From the pictures, it looks like the pistons are sitting WAY above the deck surface. You need a gasket .010" thicker than the amount of piston sitting proud above the deck. The witness casting marks on the end of the block don't appear to be cut as bad as you think... I would actually measure the block deck height as well to be sure. If the deck height is close to spec, and you can get it to spec by using a custom Cometic head gasket of .040-060" thick, you could always have JE build you a custom set of pistons with a shorter install height to accommodate the block decking.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Hey,

Thanks for the response. I didn't even think about a custom piston. That is a good idea. I plan on bringing the block the my local machine shop to get them to pull some measurements.

What marks are you looking at? I'm not as familiar with where they are or what I would be looking for although I have heard there are marks to identify when the limits are reached.

Thanks for the help on figure this out. Pistons would def. be the cheapest route and if I can salvage this block it would be awesome. The pistons I have a new and only installed never ran. I should be able to sell these for a decent price to pay for the new pistons should that be the best route.

Thanks,
Ryan

gtpilot

You could always take the opportunity to cut the combustion chambers in the head to create some really nice squish zones = better detonation resistance. What head is going on this?

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

I have a worked GSR head going on.

A friend suggested also to just destroke and use GSR crank (which I have a GSR short block) and rods with the JE pistons. I'd like to keep the rods if I could b/c they are Manley Turbo Tuff rods. Would be easier to sell the pistons than it would be the rods I think.

How much would a custom piston cost on average?

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Wow you're way over thinking this.

Use a .040 SCE head gasket and call it a day.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

It dint start this complicated lol. That is the original route I was going to take but I didn't know if a thick head gasket was going to like 600hp. If there is a fix as opposed to a bandaid I'd rather just get it fixed and not have to worry about blowing headgaskets when I throw a good bit off psi at it.


I've just never run into this dilemma before and wanted to get some experienced opinions.
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1HGEJ2

iTrader: (1)

i would turn off the piston at cnc shop, only at the edge

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

You won't blow this out....

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sce-91384

h2.4

.040" headgasket isn't gonna fix that. What head are you using?

gtpilot

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

FlewByU352

Use a belt sander across the pistons until they sit flush and you start grazing the sleeve. Or cut and re-weld your rods.

PyroProblem

Custom raised wristpins pistons to keep it an 89mm crank.
or
Since the B16 has a shorter deck height, Perhaps turn it into a B16 internally if the measurements work out.

JRCivic1

What is the possibility that you actually have GSR rods instead of LS rods ??? This would account for the dramatic increase in install height, and thus, the piston sticking out of the block as severe as you have pictured. A photo of a rod on the crankshaft journal would tell the tale. The rod would actually be narrower than the crankshaft rod journal...

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to break down the motor most likely this weekend to check that out. I have some measuring tools coming in at the end of the week. I should be able to measure how far the piston is sticking out. The builder is sending me the gasket he was going to use and I will clay the motor when I get the gasket.

I was going to talk to JE about a custom set if all the parts check out. I was thinking about seeing they can just move the wrist pin up so that the piston sits in the appropriate spot in the cylinder. That way I know the valve reliefs are also the right clearance.

Itook a closer look at the service limit marks on the block and while milling the block has not touched the dot in the center of the marks, it is very close.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Ok well after going back and looking at the pictures of the box of the rods....I think they are GSR rods and not LS rods. I checked the part number and it seems to be GSR part number. That would explain this problem. Integra LS 1.8 non V-Tec DOHC ( B18A / B18B 1990-up )14412-45.394"1.890".935".827" ( 21 mm ).8281"555
Integra GSR 1.8 V-Tec DOHC ( B1BC 1994-up )14414-45.433"1.890".858".827" ( 21 mm ).8281"547

The thing is they fit the crank but maybe not correct? I need to verify this is a LS crank now or a GSR. Here is a picture of the rods on the crank.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Welp I think this mystery is solved. The rods are GSR and the crank is a LS which is why the pistons are proud. Also noted the rod caps on the GSR are to narrow. Here is a picture of a LS cap on and the GSR cap on. You can clearly see the gaps on with the GSR cap.

JRCivic1

Yup... I thought that was your issue. Your builder should have caught this... maybe not right off when seeing the rods are narrow compared to the crankshaft rod journals, but certainly after seeing the pistons sitting so far above deck. Just assuming the deck has been machined too much is a cop out... some measuring should have been done to find the problem.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Well he's not exactly my builder (I build my own stuff and planned on breaking this down to measure anyway) per say but he did put the motor together. The owner of the block was military and was deployed for a few years and the motor was getting put together at the time. Max (the shop owner) said that the owner purchased the parts and he just assembled. He hadn't messed with the block in a while other than installing the upgraded wrist pins after I bought it so I can't blame him. But he did let me know that they were proud before shipping it to me and apologized for not checking the parts. I basically talked to him about the motor and arranged shipping through him once I bought the block. He offered me a refund but I only paid $800 for it and it was fresh block and new parts with 0 miles. All the parts were exactly what I was about to purchase anyway so I took a chance on it. So, if all I have to do is get some $750 rods and swap them out I am happy with that. I could always sell the rods I'm taking out but I will use them in my Poor man Type r motor in my civic.

I will pose the outcome when I get the new rods installed. Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it.

-Ryan

motoxxxman

I know you discovered your true issue, but I just want to add this for clarification to anyone else who reads this thread:

ideally you want a squish zone clearance of around 0.035"-0.040". when using a head that has the deck surface protruding into the combustion chamber like most B series heads, this means you need to measure the height of the piston compared to the block surface, then add 0.035" or 0.040", and that is your ideal HG thickness to use. if the pistons sit below the block surface, consider that a negative measurement. pistons sticking out is a positive measurement. and the thickest you'd ever want to go for hg is 0.060", and yes 0.060" can hold just as much power as 0.030" if torqued properly. remember, MLS gaskets are stainless steel, very strong, as long as the block and head are straight enough to evenly clamp it.

92_civic_eg

Couldnt you use a gsr crankshaft? A crank would be cheaper than rods