Personally I think drifting is kind of stupid. You get judged by how long you can slide into a turn and how long you have control it for. Sounds like me. I don't think its racing by any means. But it becoming ever so popular and generating alot of money.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drftwerk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In DOWNHILL, drifting is faster. Read the quote before you start posting obnoxious replies. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well.. I don't know how MY reply was so OBNOXIOUS..

but actually, whether you're going UPHILL, or DOWNHILL, it's not faster man.

Like I said, before, only on a few different curves. It depends. On some downhill curves, gripping is faster.

I think you're trying to point out, that it's way easier for your car's tires to lose traction/grip to the road when you're going down a steep incline, and the cars that are barely hugging the road on these steep inclines eventually lose traction.
So someone could use this lost traction (drift) to go sideways through the turn. And the only way to avoid losing traction/grip would be to go through the turn slower.

THESE, are the turns in which drift (high-speed drift) is more effective.

But then again, there are not a lot of these turns. And I would assume that on most tracks there are never turns like this. (Maybe Nurburing has one. Probably not though)

 

your mindless babble has no sway in the real world. it is not faster. please stop now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ,BJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you have experience with this? If im wrong, PROVE it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You aren't very smart. Yes I do have some experience. I have experience driving and sliding an old E30 M3 around the Nurburgring and Hockenheimring. I've have had some experience autoX'ing. I have about 30 laps on the Nurburgring which equates to something over 3 hours, and I have about 10 laps on the Hockenheimring. Not to mention the countless hours drifitng in the snow.

I don't have to prove anything. If you know anything about physics, what I said makes sense in downhill racing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ,BJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your mindless babble has no sway in the real world. it is not faster. please stop now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Who? Me or driftwerks?

And, for the last time, I didn't say Drifting is faster god damn it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drftwerk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You aren't very smart. Yes I do have some experience. I have experience driving and sliding an old E30 M3 around the Nurburgring and Hockenheimring. I've have had some experience autoX'ing. I have about 30 laps on the Nurburgring which equates to something over 3 hours, and I have about 10 laps on the Hockenheimring. Not to mention the countless hours drifitng in the snow.

I don't have to prove anything. If you know anything about physics, what I said makes sense in downhill racing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

physics says your wrong.

 

Sorry hamsterball, I didn't mean you. I meant .BJ. My apologies.

 

*nods. None taken.

Well, i read your theories on drifting.

But, I still stand by my view, that drifting is only more effective on SOME curves.
And, we know that there are curves (downhill of course) that are out there, in which high speed drifting is a bit more effective than going slower by gripping to keep traction.. but we can't have tracks/canyons in which every corner is set up that way

But yeah... it's usually not faster .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .BJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.physics says your wrong.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay, prove it.

You don't have to believe me. But the fact is that when drifting, with least amount of oversteer as possible, on a downhill, drift is faster.

And hamsterball, when I mean downhill, I mean steep inclines. Like mountain roads, which I was defending earlier. Its called Touge.

I don't care what you say anymore .BJ. I know what I know from experience in racing and taking a class in basic racing theory. If you don't want to listen to what I have to say, than fine. My first post was just simply telling you what drift is. I'm not out to convince anyone.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Trying to grip race a downhill turn is not benficial in that trying to brake and take the turn at the same time puts too much front load on the front tires, thus minimizing grip and overall attitiude of the car. This CAN result in understeer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This situation applies to every single corner, not just downhill ones. Passing through the braking threshold will obviously result in understeer, but the rememdy is not drifting, or scrubbing the speed off, which is normally considered the worst possible way to slow down.
The speed through a corner is limited by the breaking point of traction, any time traction is lost, through either under or over steer, it is slower.[period]

 

Yeah I was mentioning steep inclines as well. Im aware of that.

Heh.. I think there's no point in arguing about the "sports".

You can say drifting is gay because all you're doing is burning up your tires and stressing the **** out of your car.

You can say basketball is gay because all it contributes to life is a ball through a round, circular hoop.

You can say baseball is boring because ITS JUSS SO DAMN BORING DAMNIT!

But in the end it really doesn't matter, and it still impresses/entertains others. Who cares.

 

You guys realize you are arguing with someone who considers his 3hrs of on track time and his "drifting" in the snow enough expertise to tell us all how effective it is.

This is a useless argument, its been debated over and over again. If you want to drift do it, its slower everywhere, seems kinda fun/amusing to do... but thats it. If you want speed you keep traction at all times, as was stated before... Everytime those tires loose grip and you "drift" you are scrubbing speed.

It is better to scrub that speed more effectively in a braking zone and settle the car and then optimize the amount of time spent on the throttle while you have GRIP.

As to the original posts question.... Drift is a moving car show.

 

I agree hamsterball. I know that grip racing is much faster. I'm not that naive. I know that if i try to drift the Nurburgring (which I have, not very well though), I'm not going to produce better lap times. The fact is that drifting I think is beneficial on a downhill run just because its very easy to overload the front tires. There are a lot of factors in determining the speed of a downhill. If everything were constant, than yes, I would agree that grip is faster than drift on the downhill. But many things come into factor here, brake fade, front tire grip, the condition of the road. With drift, if done right, you barely need to use the brakes, front tire grip is not an issue. When discussing Touge, it becomes very relevant because you are taking consecutive turns the whole time on the downhill with not very many straightaways.

 

Yeah. I'm aware of that. (again i say. lol)

I know on touge canyons, there are more curves that allow you to slide thru them faster than going slow to grip through them (because of different camber/slant in the road, etc)..

there are alot of factors.. true.

 

Drifting is about as much of a legitimate competition as a burnout contest or car show is

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by splitime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You guys realize you are arguing with someone who considers his 3hrs of on track time and his "drifting" in the snow enough expertise to tell us all how effective it is.
This is a useless argument, its been debated over and over again. If you want to drift do it, its slower everywhere, seems kinda fun/amusing to do... but thats it. If you want speed you keep traction at all times, as was stated before... Everytime those tires loose grip and you "drift" you are scrubbing speed.

It is better to scrub that speed more effectively in a braking zone and settle the car and then optimize the amount of time spent on the throttle while you have GRIP.

As to the original posts question.... Drift is a moving car show.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

And how much time do you have exactly on any track? Its not just 3 hours too. Auto X experience, more time at the Hockenhiemring and drifting in the snow can show you a lot about the physics of a car. And we are talking about downhill.

And basically you are saying that when you brake before a turn and settle the car, you can ACCELERATE around an apex on the downhill? Because this is what I am talking about. Downhill. Along with gravitional forces on the downhill, you don't scrub speed as much when you drift as when you are braking and the gripping.

 

I could argue about why I think its a good competition, but it won't make a difference and I could care less about what people I don't know think about it (-_0)
There's really no point in arguing.

I'm gonna go drift my friend's 240 now. jk

Oh yeah... (To each their own.)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drftwerk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And how much time do you have exactly on any track?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lets see... Few autoX's (stopped doing them, not worth the money/time ratio and its kinda goofy competing against open wheeled super hayabusa powered kit cars on R compounts...) I'd estimate ~10+hrs on track, nothing crazy, but I'm not drawing on my own background to discuss this. Its more of a long debated argument and the only people that sit and defend drift as "faster" are the ones with little to NO race experience.

I've been to the track more times than I've driven, I listen when spoken to instead of speak. I like absorbing like a sponge, you'll find that the rwd guys on track will joke about drift as an amusement... but when it comes time to go fast... they are all about keeping the power down on the pavement. NOT sliding the *** around.

BMW guys, Spec Miata guys, Race Vipers etc.... they want traction, not sliding.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ,BJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do urself a favor, and understand my post first. Jackass. I dont care who is driving the cars, if they are doing it by drifting, it wont be faster than if they were just plain racing. period.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yah, just cuz fast drivers soemtimes go drifting doesn't mean it's cuz they think it's faster. it's normal for the Japanese racers to go for a drift lap after their real runs when they actually give a **** what their time is gonna be.

drifting is fun to watch, and probably fun to do, but that's all there is to it.

and for the record, a couple powerslides here and there doesn't necessitate a drift lap.

 

tihs thread is Teh sUX0r...

 

wow haters.. whats it like to be a hater? i understand that your probably have drifted before and its soooooooooo easy for you that you can drift a school bus and pull it out. damn .. it must suck to be that mad at people.

 

[QUOTE=splitime]Lets see... Few autoX's (stopped doing them, not worth the money/time ratio and its kinda goofy competing against open wheeled super hayabusa powered kit cars on R compounts...) I'd estimate ~10+hrs on track, nothing crazy, but I'm not drawing on my own background to discuss this. Its more of a long debated argument and the only people that sit and defend drift as "faster" are the ones with little to NO race experience.

I've been to the track more times than I've driven, I listen when spoken to instead of speak. I like absorbing like a sponge, you'll find that the rwd guys on track will joke about drift as an amusement... but when it comes time to go fast... they are all about keeping the power down on the pavement. NOT sliding the *** around.

BMW guys, Spec Miata guys, Race Vipers etc.... they want traction, not sliding.

[QUOTE]

I don't understand. If you absorb what you hear or read, than how come my posts are not being absorbed into your brain. I know that grip driving is faster than drift, but not in ceratin situations such as DOWNHILL drift. Read the post before
responding. I'm not blowing smoke up people's asses, I've spent my fair share of time at the racetrack, and I listen to people also. But just listening to what other people say isn't everything. Until you go out and do certain techniques will you truly understand what and how things work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I know that grip driving is faster than drift, but not in ceratin situations such as DOWNHILL drift.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That statement is like saying:
"Driving in reverse is faster than driving normally, like when all forward gears have failed".
An inferior technique that is used when the superior technique is unavailable or disabled.

 

Drift competetions are more of an exhibition than anything else. Which is exactly why their called Drift Competitions. The point, I guess, depending on your opinion, would be just to have fun driving your car, and put on a show for people. Its just enthusiasts enjoying their vehicles, some like to drift, others drag, autox, road racing, I think, in the scheme of things, thats what it comes down to, so i guess that would be the point of a drift competiton, just drivers pushing their cars, putting on a show for people.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2+2=5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i think you are trying to say drifting will never be faster than racing.

but do you know most of the top drifter from japan are JGTC drivers?
oh yeah, did i mention JGTC?

please think and do your research before putting down wrong info.

do yourself a favor, look at the driver's list

http://www.jgtcusa.net/</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why don't you research before putting down wrong info. Drifting is not the fastest way around a turn PERIOD.

Drifting is gay. &lt;sarcasm&gt;"I'm gonna take my girl out and do donuts in a vacant parking lot to show her that I'm a drifter."&lt;sarcasm/&gt;