<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Import Power Online &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for a 3100 pound car with 700+ HP, would 1000 pound springs for the rear GCs be a good rate? Or is that too high?

Currently they are 800.250.300 (300 pound)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Were you just at Maple Grove last weekend? Or have you possibly been at Cecil County, Maryland before?

 

Is the red line the tie rod? That doesn't make an sense to me. If the steering relied on flexing a rubber bushing to do so, then it would make it very hard to steer and it seems like it would quickly wear out the rubber bushings?

I don't really understand your diagram completely, but the "radius rod" of the "traction bar" would go to the lower control arm directly, not to the spindle.

You have any actuall pics of the suspension?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaBullSQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Were you just at Maple Grove last weekend? Or have you possibly been at Cecil County, Maryland before?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, we set the 3000GT/Stealth World trap record last wednesday at Cecil, and broke the FWD ET record (was already ours at 11.44) at Maple grove this past saturday running the 11.3 @ 137.89

We will be at Maple again this saturday looking for traction and 10's

 

Yeah.. You can watch all of the flex in the rail car chassis itself. They flex something fierce. Not sure if they are actually designed like that to act as suspension or if they just can't get complete rigidity in something so long and thin and hollow.

 

Did you see Tony Schumacher's car last month, it flexed too much and snapped in half. That was crazy.

 

Pics of the suspension

 

Ah, never mind about the 2G suspension stuff as it's not the same as in those pictures. Traction arms would work just fine on the front of a 3000 GT. Tony, sorry if I worded it funny. The stock suspension relies on the compliance of the rubber to allow the arms to rotate. You are just twisting the rubber, which you can do by hand pretty easily. The red rod is the tie rod. The upper control arm is omitted from that crappy little picture. If you triangulated what I call the lateral link with a traction bar, it would not be able to move forward or backwards. If that arm can't move forward or backwards, the rear arm can not travel in an arc and therefore the hub can not turn. I looked for some pictures to explain better then my crappy little diagram, but I couldn't find anything.

 

i would take the front sway off. try it and see if it helps

FYI i really dont know what im talking about. tony1 does, tho


just wondering, what size turbos are u runnin?

 

You should listen to Tony1 and work on controlling your boost in first gear at the very least.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would take the front sway off. try it and see if it helps </TD></TR></TABLE>

This trick only works with RWD cars, the idea is to make the front lighter so the cars weight transfers to the rear wheels.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnzm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would take the front sway off. try it and see if it helps

FYI i really dont know what im talking about. tony1 does, tho


just wondering, what size turbos are u runnin?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Twin EVOIIIs which are TD05 E16G

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaBullSQ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah.. You can watch all of the flex in the rail car chassis itself. They flex something fierce. Not sure if they are actually designed like that to act as suspension or if they just can't get complete rigidity in something so long and thin and hollow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here is a picture so I can show you why the cars flex so much.Its so they can take out some of the wing on the big end.Without changing anything.Rules say no wing adjustments when the car is moving.The canards in the front keep it from going over


sorry about this .But I thought you guys might like to know why

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RMF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Here is a picture so I can show you why the cars flex so much.Its so they can take out some of the wing on the big end.Without changing anything.Rules say no wing adjustments when the car is moving.The canards in the front keep it from going over


sorry about this .But I thought you guys might like to know why</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wondered why they let the chassis flex up that much.Man I wonder who figured that out.

 

can i fit one of those badass wings on a civic?......lol

 

Well the new tires and springs let me do two things today.

I am the FIRST 3000GT/Stealth to break the 140MPH barrier and the first FWD 3000GT/Stealth to break into the 10's.

11.39 @ 140.88
10.91 @ 142.15

 

Cool how did it feel? Did you lower the boost in low gear?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Import Power Online &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well the new tires and springs let me do two things today.

I am the FIRST 3000GT/Stealth to break the 140MPH barrier and the first FWD 3000GT/Stealth to break into the 10's.

11.39 @ 140.88
10.91 @ 142.15 </TD></TR></TABLE>


congratulations!

can u post ur #'s up? (RT/1.8th spd/tm)

 

VID
http://www.3sforum.com/vids/10seconds.wmv

 

u need to get your 60's down. sounds like you are REALLY falling out of boost on the 1-2 shift. i heared spinnning, but you tell me... you might need to ride first out a little longer it didnt sound too bad in second. i think u could do a little more burnout, but im no pro at that! sounds like a msd box with a 3 step might help you out alot, so that u dont bog as much between gears, or use soem nitrous

how did the stiffer rear springs do?

and what pressure are u running the new slicks

 

new slicks and springs allowed me to stay in it WOT in 2nd and 3rd. Before I was spinning the entire track even at 139mph. So it helped.

HOW THE HELL do traction bars work?
I see them available for many FWD imports. They connect the lower control arm to the body. HOW THE HELL does a horizontal bar keep the tire planted? I don't get it?! They confuse me.

 

from what I can gather, am I close?

I have seen them in two designs, one from control arm to behind it and the other in front of it.

In short the control arm pivots at it's two mounting points allowing the wheel to travel up and down, but on launch it also twists on the opposite plane of the pivot points which change the caster and you lose traction. These keep the control arm from twisting but not from moving the way they should.

 

nice run

You all most cried in the VID lol... how many years have you been building your car?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Import Power Online &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from what I can gather, am I close?

I have seen them in two designs, one from control arm to behind it and the other in front of it.

In short the control arm pivots at it's two mounting points allowing the wheel to travel up and down, but on launch it also twists on the opposite plane of the pivot points which change the caster and you lose traction. These keep the control arm from twisting but not from moving the way they should.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It isn't what you think. Traction bars in the 'Import Sense' don't work like the same-named component on a RWD car. In this case, 'Traction Bars' basically only limit the fore-aft movement of the lower control arm. This reduces a cars tendency to wheel-hop, since the suspension does not bounce fore, then bounce aft, and keep repeating... which is what most wheel hop is anyway. Watch some FWD cars at the track that don't have them, you'll visually see the wheel move forward in the wheelwell during launch.

Somehow, these bars got the name 'Traction Bars', because they do limit wheel hop, and allow for a more sturdy front suspension, which in turn will allow you to hook up a bit better... but in their truest sense, they are only basically 'Solid Radius Rods'... But as for twisting forces, there are no real twisting forces (not that strong anyway) on the LCA. you -can- change the angle of attack though, and that may change how it loads the chassis, or limits hop, or suspension compression, etc.. just gotta test to see how it affects your particular setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ComposiMo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It isn't what you think. Traction bars in the 'Import Sense' don't work like the same-named component on a RWD car. In this case, 'Traction Bars' basically only limit the fore-aft movement of the lower control arm. This reduces a cars tendency to wheel-hop, since the suspension does not bounce fore, then bounce aft, and keep repeating... which is what most wheel hop is anyway. Watch some FWD cars at the track that don't have them, you'll visually see the wheel move forward in the wheelwell during launch.

Somehow, these bars got the name 'Traction Bars', because they do limit wheel hop, and allow for a more sturdy front suspension, which in turn will allow you to hook up a bit better... but in their truest sense, they are only basically 'Solid Radius Rods'... But as for twisting forces, there are no real twisting forces (not that strong anyway) on the LCA. you -can- change the angle of attack though, and that may change how it loads the chassis, or limits hop, or suspension compression, etc.. just gotta test to see how it affects your particular setup </TD></TR></TABLE>

VERY good info, thanks!

 

Changing the angle would only work if you moved the front and the rear pick up points. All 3 still need to be inline. Moving the front one down would just jack up the points and make the suspension bind.

I agree, we need to have the name of them officially changed to front suspension stiffeners. lol

 

OR radius rods with hyme joints that hook to a new crossmember.NOT traction bars