BrowNKiD

Hey I just finished my H2B civic and I put a bulley stage 4 4puck clutch in it. When i try to shift gear at high rpm I have to wait a realy long time be4 it will let me put it in gear.
Im not sure what the problem is. I have replaced the tranny with a b16 one and at first it shifted fine but after about a day im having the same problem. I have been told eveything from the clutch, tranny fluid, flywheel, and pretty much anything else you think could be the problem.

BTW the car made 193 stock motor on a dyna pack im dying to rip gear please help!

fukenricen

Did you replace all bushings with stiffer ones?
check if your master cyl for the clutch is leaking under the dash. check your slave cyl if its not rusted inside. i had no issues with my h2b untill once at the track which was bound to happen.

I put a new master cyl for the clutch and what happened was the pressure plate was not use to the excessive pressure so the first few days i grinded 2nd gear but after the pressure plate got use to the pressure it worked fine until track day where the badly beaten up syncrol gave up and wouldnt open 2nd at high rpm.

905_Legend

is the clutch fully releasing ?

2fastGSR

What h2b kit are you using ?

LA_HONDAS

he is using the evo kit

click on h2b in his sig

2fastGSR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LA_HONDAS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">he is using the evo kit

click on h2b in his sig</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well this is what I believe . . . .

Take this for what its worth as it is only my personal experience. . . Maybe someone from Evo can chime in because they didnt like to respond to my emails.

I HAD the evo kit. Everything shifted fine until i put a stronger clutch in the car.
My problems started when the car started creeping forward on the line. Clutch pedal fully depressed, on the 2 step, car would just start moving.
Then in high rpms the car would not go into gear.

I tried everything, switched clutches, trans rebuilds, different trans, replaced slave, master, lines, linkages, etc.

Spoke to engineers at evo and the most they could muster up was how many high horsepower race cars use their kits and havent had a problem so my little AM car should be fine.
We came up with the conclusion that the clutch was not disengaging enough to allow it to shift at high rpms.
Shaving 15 thousandths off the face of the flywheel is what the engineers suggested.
Did that, still wouldn't shift. Tried pedal stops to make sure it wasnt over engaging any longer, didnt work either.

So finally my motor let go and we took everything apart. It wasnt until then that i saw what I PERSONALLY think is the issue. Evo uses a one piece flywheel with a spacer attached to it to make up the distance. Well the step on the front of the flywheel is MUCH larger then on a stock b series flywheel. The flywheel is spaced from the back, and this material on the front is what wears down so i believe that this material is too thick.
I measured it next to a stock b series flywheel and the front ( trans facing ) step on the flywheel is something like a couple hundred thousandths larger than a b series flywheel. Doesnt sound like much but in the grand scheme of things, i think that is the issue.
That thick material is not allowing the clutch to fully disengage. .

So when i sent my findings to EVO , the person i spoke to said - oh yeah i was having the same problem with my car and i had to have a custom pressure plate made ( when a month earlier i was crazy for even saying i had an issue)
So to me doesnt that mean there is a flaw in the design?
Now i know there are tons of people out there using the kit that are having no problems. A good friend of mine is one of them.
I have switched everything under the sun. My pops even machined different length rods for the slave to give it more and less throw.

Unfortunately the only way i found to rectify the situation was to switch to a Qsd kit.
Thats definitely the answer you didnt want to hear, but made the most sense to me.
Again, i might get flamed but this is my experience. Take it for whatever you'd like . .

high_revs

i think your experience should be in the h2b FAQ in the same detail just so h2b users can be aware..i also had clutch issues with my evo kit and not once had issues with my QSD kit... evo kit really dissapointed me and i dont really like the idea of changing fork lenghts..

93lxh22

damn i was hoping i wouldn't hear anything like this a week before my car is ready i just have to pray i dont have this problem at Atco

BrowNKiD

wow this suks. But the clutch master cylinder is brand new from honda

fukenricen

i hope i dont have any issues when the new motor comes out, but iv done over 10passes with the h2b kit throwing in the gears and it was fine at high rpm's.

turbotypeR@SPEC

What was the step height on the flywheel? By that I mean the height from the surface the pressure plate bolts to to the surface the disc touches on the flywheel. It should be .112". If it is taller, it would have issues releasing.

unusual71

whats the best way to mount a flywheel in a chuck on a lathe?

BrowNKiD

2fastgsr i have acutally read you post where you explained you problem. But the difference with my car is it doesnt creep off the line. And this is the confusing part when i put in the b16 tranny it powershifted fine the first day but the second nothing. Plus when i double pump the clutch between cars is shifts faster than when i single pump the clutch. BTW im using gm syncromesh.

turbotypeR@SPEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by unusual71 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats the best way to mount a flywheel in a chuck on a lathe?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't work in the machine shop. You would have to ask one of those guys.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrowNKiD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2fastgsr i have acutally read you post where you explained you problem. But the difference with my car is it doesnt creep off the line. And this is the confusing part when i put in the b16 tranny it powershifted fine the first day but the second nothing. Plus when i double pump the clutch between cars is shifts faster than when i single pump the clutch. BTW im using gm syncromesh.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had that problem and the master was leaking very little. I did not notice it until I removed it. It had just a little bit leaking out of the end.

evogrl

Greetings,
First off just to clarify a few things. I can guarantee you that an "engineer" from Evolution would not tell you to go and "merely" shave off a few thousandths on the face of a flywheel that was so intricately designed.

Second of all, we have sold hundreds and hundreds of kits and have not had a complaint that led to the design nor manufacturing of the kit.

Thirdly, for you to blatently make a comment on mere theory as fact in regard to clutch engagement and disengagement, and its direct correlation with a flaw to the Evolution Kit without evidence to base your statement on seems to be quite nescient.

My apologies if you had a negative experience with your clutch. I can reassure you that if you are having issues with engaging and disengaging your clutch... in simple terms would you not consider the "clutch" as a variable in the issue?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however statements that are blatently made should not be touted as fact without proper evidence to backup your theory.


Modified by evogrl at 3:12 PM 9/16/2008

blindh22

y didnt any body answer his emails

NAH2B

hopefully you guys at evo may be able to give Jake (2fastgsr) a hand in solving the problem he is having. i would hate to see him spend money on another h2b kit when im sure the evo kit will work fine for him once he gets this issue solved

evogirl, if you dont mind please take a look at his slave cylinder in this pic: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2335536

see how it is completely compressed compared to mine in the other pic? i know this has something to do w/ the problem but since he lives a good distance from me i have been unable to give him a hand w/ solving this problem.

the slave cylinder should not be compressed the way it is. you can see the shift fork is also sitting closer to the trans case on the bellhousing side as well. we compared slave cylinders and they are identical. the problem is somewhere in the fork, clutch, or flywheel.

two of which components are supplied w/ the evo kit. i would suggest having Jake send in the fork and flywheel to be inspected. not just by any tech, but by someone familiar w/ this particular situation and who would be willing to take a very close look at these components. maybee compare them to some parts from your kits in stock and see if they are identical keeping in mind that the flywheel has been resurfaced. but you can still meaure it and give a comparison against a new flywheel.

if the components are founfd to be proper then the problem must be somewhere in the clutch. if the fork or flywheel is not to spec then simply replace it. either way it would be a good starting point to solve this problem.

hopefully you guys can come up w/ an answer and get this thing fixed so my boy can go out next season and represent for the h2b's

turbotypeR@SPEC

If it worked fine at first and then started this problem, then it is a hydraulic issue.

NAH2B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotypeR@SPEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If it worked fine at first and then started this problem, then it is a hydraulic issue. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i know by the looks of the slave cylinder being completely compressed, it looks like there is no hydro pressure behind it, BUT you actually have to compress the cylinder that much just to get it in position to bolt it in place. and even fully compressed it still barely wants to cooperate enough to get the bolt holes lined up.

something isnt right plain and simple. im not saying its the evo kit because i am using one myself w/o issue. but it is a possibility that a bad fork or flywheel could have been produced, no?

honestly i believe it is a combination of the clutch and flywheel together, but thats just my opinion. there is no way of telling w/o inspecting everything.

LA_HONDAS

NAH2B how bout you put 2fastgsr flywheel on your motor and your clutch on and see if its the flywheel if go's well put your flywheel on and his clutch and see whats what

just my 0.02

NAH2B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LA_HONDAS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NAH2B how bout you put 2fastgsr flywheel on your motor and your clutch on and see if its the flywheel if go's well put your flywheel on and his clutch and see whats what

just my 0.02 </TD></TR></TABLE>

that sounds like a good bit of work not to mention i may end up w/ some chewed up gears as a result.

besides there are other variables that may effect the outcome. it would be much better to compare jakes parts/measurements to known good evo parts and go from there. i am also very interested to know the exact measurement of the pressure plate face where the bearing contacts the fingers. i would like to measure from the face of the block to the face of the pressure plate while the clutch/flywheel is installed on the motor. this would be the best way to see if this is whats causing the slave to be fully compressed like it is.

if it turns out Jakes pressure plate is out farther from the block than mine, that would be the reason for the slave being compressed. then we could remove the clutch and measure from the block to the surface of the flywheel where the clutch bolts to and also where the disk makes contact to the friction surface. if these measurements are the same as mine but the pressureplate measurements are not.....then that would tell me the clutch is the problem.

i would also compare the release forks to eachother to make sure they are the same dimensions and that it is not bent in any way.

if all measurements turn out the same....then i would imagine the problem would be in the trans itself or possibly the linkage or hydro system. BUT you have to keep in mind that the slave cylinder should not be comressed fully the way it is and should not be that difficult to install so........my money is on there being an issue somewhere between the fork, clutch, and flywheel like i said.

the only way to solve this issue for certain is to start somewhere and the best place to start would be by taking some measurements and comparing parts

i would hate to see Jake become even more frustrated and purchase a different kit only to have the same problem happen all over again on his new motor

NAH2B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BrowNKiD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2fastgsr i have acutally read you post where you explained you problem. But the difference with my car is it doesnt creep off the line. And this is the confusing part when i put in the b16 tranny it powershifted fine the first day but the second nothing. Plus when i double pump the clutch between cars is shifts faster than when i single pump the clutch. BTW im using gm syncromesh.</TD></TR></TABLE>

and to the op, first of all get rid of the syncromesh and install some factory honda trans fluid. what exatly do you mean by "powershift"? and what rpm are you shifting at?

MrParks

jake doesnt know how to drive. does this variable count ?

im kidding.. hope you can it worked out brotha.

call me up and lets figure it out lazy.

turbotypeR@SPEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NAH2B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i know by the looks of the slave cylinder being completely compressed, it looks like there is no hydro pressure behind it, BUT you actually have to compress the cylinder that much just to get it in position to bolt it in place. and even fully compressed it still barely wants to cooperate enough to get the bolt holes lined up.

something isnt right plain and simple. im not saying its the evo kit because i am using one myself w/o issue. but it is a possibility that a bad fork or flywheel could have been produced, no?

honestly i believe it is a combination of the clutch and flywheel together, but thats just my opinion. there is no way of telling w/o inspecting everything.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry, I missed the pics and you mentioning about the slave. Check with the clutch manufacturer and find out what the disc thickness should be. Then check yours/his. We have some clutches that use different thickness discs. With that being said, you could have a thinner disc with a pressure plate that was machined for the thicker disc. This would raise the diaphram and push the slave cylinder in this way. It would also give you problems with disengaugement.

NAH2B

^^i agree w/ this theory, it is definately a posibility and should be lookied into. something is definately causing the slave to be compressed that far and this could be the problem.