Does anyone know when the rules of going to come out for BOTI? I really hope that they keep the basic structure as last year, and dont try to adopt the NHRA rules.

 

I'm sure there are going to be some rules that are going to differ from last season. But with good reasons as well. There are some extremely fast cars going to be racing BOTI this up coming 2008 season, so some rules have to be set.
Frank is working on them as we speak. They should be out before or right after new years from what I understand. Frank is just trying to finalize the rules and make it fair enough for everyone to be happy with, but there is allways the people that are not going to be happy with them, Frank can't please everyone.

 

Also I might wanna add, if BOTI turns into a "points championship" they HAVE to have rules set, it's just how it is, How can you have a points chase without rules such as weight, turbo size, fuel, ect ect.? I don't blame Frank one bit for doing so. I mean where do you draw the line? You can't have a field of 8 cars running high 8's or low 9's then have 1 or 2 cars running high 7's. How does that work out with a points championship? Especially since this has turned into a 2 day event as where say like the high 7sec cars break, they have all day and night to fix it for the next day. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
I'm sure the rules Frank comes out with will please everyone for the most part. This is why it is taking so long for the rules to be released, Frank is having a tough time trying to figure out how to make things work, but he is getting there.

 

So are you saying that the rules will be made to give guys like you a better chance while outing the Supras from RRev, Virtual Works, etc as they are now too quick???

I never understood why the sactioning bodies are always changing rules to slow the fast cars down instead of making the slower cars adapt and improve (survival of the fittest).

Either way Jake, have fun trying to find that extra second to catch up to the supras

 

I doubt Frank will oust the fast cars, just implement rules to slow them down or lighten other rules to let other setups go faster. Rules are meant to obtain full and close fields. not let the big budget or geniuses run the races all the time.

The goal of rules is to make the racing a battle of driver ability not let the cars with big power blow out the little people. i wouldnt travel more than 2 hours to a race if i was #8 qualifier and 1.5 seconds behind the top qualifiers. Rules slow the top couple down until they bunch up.

 

They should have one class for people that dont fit in any other classes. Heads up class with no weight or turbo restrictions.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brobards &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I never understood why the sactioning bodies are always changing rules to slow the fast cars down instead of making the slower cars adapt and improve (survival of the fittest).

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That has to be one of the best posts i have seen in a long time.


And than there is the other end of the spectrum.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RPRacing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I doubt Frank will oust the fast cars, just implement rules to slow them down or lighten other rules to let other setups go faster. Rules are meant to obtain full and close fields. not let the big budget or geniuses run the races all the time.

The goal of rules is to make the racing a battle of driver ability not let the cars with big power blow out the little people. i wouldnt travel more than 2 hours to a race if i was #8 qualifier and 1.5 seconds behind the top qualifiers. Rules slow the top couple down until they bunch up. </TD></TR></TABLE>

It is that attitude that makes this sport struggle to gain a stong foot hold in the racing community. It is also that attitude that keeps the sport from getting the respect that it deserves.

What you are saying is that the people that have struggled for years and learned from all there mistakes and never gave up or said Im not going to race if i cant win. Those same people that now have fast cars because either they have be recognized by big sponsors or have learned how to make power and put it down to the track to go fast, Those people should now be penalized for the talent and success. Well i think you're wrong. I think more people should step up and figure out how to go fast. A lot of people before you had to do it. John Force raced for years before he won his first race. Now that he has honed his skills and his team, he should have to slow down. I dont think so. Also if you do set rules against these so called big budget or smarter teams they are just going to figure away to make the car fast again. Why, because they have a never give up attitude and will travel more than 2 hours so that they can learn and test different set-up so they can win.


Thats my .02

 

Its about competition above all... Like most every "Real Racer" has said, I would rather see a 16 car field , seperated by a couple of tenths. Rather than a couple of seconds... But that doesnt mean we need to throw an anchor on the guys that have busted their asses to be the fastest.. They shouldnt be punished. They should be chased...You guys need to go back and think of what you were doing in 1990 when I was winning the first BOTI... What were you all doing??? Probably not even driving.

. We need to help the SPORT... Not try and help ourselves.

 

Its always going to be survival of the fittest, thats what drag racing is based on. That can never be taken away from the sport. Putting regulations on classes helps those who necessarily wouldnt be competitive become competitive. No one wants to see a finals where cars are a second or more apart, its just illogical. Thats how people become uninterested with the sport.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brobards &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So are you saying that the rules will be made to give guys like you a better chance while outing the Supras from RRev, Virtual Works, etc as they are now too quick???

I never understood why the sactioning bodies are always changing rules to slow the fast cars down instead of making the slower cars adapt and improve (survival of the fittest).

Either way Jake, have fun trying to find that extra second to catch up to the supras </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not going to play this pissing match with you, I could care less what I race, be it a 7sec car or 9sec car, it's all the same to me. Also before you point fingers at me maybe you need to sit back and think to yourself "Does Jake make the rules?" No I don't. so calm yourself there buddy. I don't understand why all of a sudden the negativity towards me, again, I don't make the rules. You make a post with attentions to start bitching about it. We all have to adapt to it, plain and simple. Whatever the rules are going to be, I will build the car to meet the class, my feelings will not be hurt from it, why should yours?

 

on any given sunday you could win.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 75w90 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> on any given sunday you could win. </TD></TR></TABLE>


There was not one supra that beat me in eliminations this 2007 season. Yes they were faster then me, but I was the more consistent one and more reliable one at the time, imagine that, a DSM more reliable, how the hell did I manage that? LOL. So if I line up with a 7sec supra, I'm not concerned, well maybe a little, but at the same token, I know what "can" happen. So again, not concerned about who or what I race, anything can happen.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 75w90 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> on any given sunday you could win. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Dont know why you say BS.... Anyone can break on the line or down the track


Good example... Seattle BOTI '07. Pro Street All Motor Finals.... Bisi vs. A no name guy..... Tree turns Green and Bisi breaks an axle... The no name guy WINs... With a car that is more than a second slower... So sometimes it doesnt just matter how fast you are all the time..

YES ... ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY YOU CAN WIN!!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHCinWA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its about competition above all... Like most every "Real Racer" has said, I would rather see a 16 car field , seperated by a couple of tenths. Rather than a couple of seconds... But that doesnt mean we need to throw an anchor on the guys that have busted their asses to be the fastest.. They shouldnt be punished. They should be chased...You guys need to go back and think of what you were doing in 1990 when I was winning the first BOTI... What were you all doing??? Probably not even driving.

. We need to help the SPORT... Not try and help ourselves.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Very very well said!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by N2O &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That has to be one of the best posts i have seen in a long time.


And than there is the other end of the spectrum.

It is that attitude that makes this sport struggle to gain a stong foot hold in the racing community. It is also that attitude that keeps the sport from getting the respect that it deserves.

What you are saying is that the people that have struggled for years and learned from all there mistakes and never gave up or said Im not going to race if i cant win. Those same people that now have fast cars because either they have be recognized by big sponsors or have learned how to make power and put it down to the track to go fast, Those people should now be penalized for the talent and success. Well i think you're wrong. I think more people should step up and figure out how to go fast. A lot of people before you had to do it. John Force raced for years before he won his first race. Now that he has honed his skills and his team, he should have to slow down. I don't think so. Also if you do set rules against these so called big budget or smarter teams they are just going to figure away to make the car fast again. Why, because they have a never give up attitude and will travel more than 2 hours so that they can learn and test different set-up so they can win.


Thats my .02</TD></TR></TABLE>dan you have a very valid point i used to think the same way. but times have changed you used to be able to be competitive with a shelf turbo kit and a motor with some rods and a piston not any more. the cost off the sport has resin dramatically in the past few years beyond the payouts and or sponsorships . you have to make the sport somewhat affordable i think the passion is there but the wallets aren't (i know its racing). i really don't see how some people do it i make a decent living i work on average about 60hrs a week even during race season there are some nights i come home take a shower go back to work after working on the car all night. ever work on 19000 volts in 110degree weather when you haven't sleep in days fun let me tell ya. i love this sport but i have a family they come first i cant keep spending every dime i make for love off the sport. you might read this and say tuff **** and i understand but there's ten other people reading it going i feel the same way the cost off the sport has to come down in order for it to survive end off story. on a side note i have been to every sc event i could afford to attend for the past 10 years even when i new i didn't have a chance in hell.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by evil_eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not going to play this pissing match with you, I could care less what I race, be it a 7sec car or 9sec car, it's all the same to me. Also before you point fingers at me maybe you need to sit back and think to yourself "Does Jake make the rules?" No I don't. so calm yourself there buddy. I don't understand why all of a sudden the negativity towards me, again, I don't make the rules. You make a post with attentions to start bitching about it. We all have to adapt to it, plain and simple. Whatever the rules are going to be, I will build the car to meet the class, my feelings will not be hurt from it, why should yours?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I made this post with the intentions of trying to find what the BOTI rules will be for next year. I was excited by the schedule as now there are 2 races within 3 hours of me, and I just want to be sure that we will be legal to race next year.

Jake, I never said that you made the rules, but it sure does sound like you are on the phone with Frank alot more than most people.

Also, I wasnt trying to be negative towards you, I was just flicking ya some ****. I do give it up to you as you were really consistent last year all through the season.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by evil_eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


There was not one supra that beat me in eliminations this 2007 season. Yes they were faster then me, but I was the more consistent one and more reliable one at the time, imagine that, a DSM more reliable, how the hell did I manage that? LOL. So if I line up with a 7sec supra, I'm not concerned, well maybe a little, but at the same token, I know what "can" happen. So again, not concerned about who or what I race, anything can happen. </TD></TR></TABLE>

One correction, you must have forgotten Seattle last year. As I remember it the RRev Supra was a little more reliable than you at that race, but then again that car didnt make one pass that wasnt an 8, and still drove onto the trailer. Again, just flippin ya a little ****...

 

I'm sure most people will be pleased with the rules, I doubt there will be very drastic changes in any class.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by brobards &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I made this post with the intentions of trying to find what the BOTI rules will be for next year. I was excited by the schedule as now there are 2 races within 3 hours of me, and I just want to be sure that we will be legal to race next year.

Jake, I never said that you made the rules, but it sure does sound like you are on the phone with Frank alot more than most people.

Also, I wasnt trying to be negative towards you, I was just flicking ya some ****. I do give it up to you as you were really consistent last year all through the season.

One correction, you must have forgotten Seattle last year. As I remember it the RRev Supra was a little more reliable than you at that race, but then again that car didnt make one pass that wasnt an 8, and still drove onto the trailer. Again, just flippin ya a little ****... </TD></TR></TABLE>

well, maybe I did read it out of context, but it sure looked the other way to me. Anyway I apologize for coming off so strong, it just seemed to me you were getting all pissy with me when I have no control over the rules, yes I talk to Frank on the phone, not just about that but about anything, I enjoy talking to Frank as he is a very stand up guy. I enjoyed racing with you guys this past season, lets make 2008 an even better season for all of us!!


Oh and for the record, I never lined up with your guy's supra in Seattle. I meant every supra I have lined up with and raced.
I raced you guys once back a few years ago, and if memory serves me correctly, I beat you guys in the finals, and you guys were faster then me that day Again anything can happen, and that day it did.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by evil_eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I raced you guys once back a few years ago, and if memory serves me correctly, I beat you guys in the finals, and you guys were faster then me that day Again anything can happen, and that day it did.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wasnt around for that race, but I have heard about it. From what I heard neither car was really 100% and it was a back and forth race. I know Tim had to deal with a blown clutch and a seat malfunction, but as you say anything can happen . All that matters is who takes the win light.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WillieWillieFast &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They should have one class for people that dont fit in any other classes. Heads up class with no weight or turbo restrictions.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree. i dont think my car really falls into any class catagories. maybe hot rod or pro, if i add some weight to it

 

DSM this, Supra that.......


Isn't this HONDA-tech ?

 

One point that people need to remember is that we used to have a points championship, with a very defined set of rules. It was NHRA Sport Compact, and where is it now? Now other than SFWD, the turnout would have to be described as dismal at best in recent years. Why? Because nobody could afford to compete, save for a select few. As the rules tightened to "even" the competition, the amount of people that could keep spending to fit the ever tighter rules while remaining competitive diminished. Pretty soon you have 2-4 cars racing in a 8/16 car field. It has been cleary demonstrated by NHRA that this industry at the current time cannot fill a ProRWD, ProFWD and Hot Rod class. There are always rumors of cars, but in the end the fields are never full. At Seattle this year, the BOTI Pro field was full. Yes there was a fairly wide variation in the speed of the cars in Pro, but if you skim off the fastest (due to the rules) suddenly you don't have a full field anymore and the whole event suffers.

BOTI has been sucessful for a reason, and I think you need to look at history of BOTI vs NHRA before running headlong into a tight rule structure sort of environment. A lot of us will be out if NHRA rules are adopted, and from what I have seen in past years, the series can't afford to lose that many cars to make a couple "pro" guys happy.

 

i think that's where i am headed i need to run a 6.50 1/8 mile to be competitive at my local 1/8 mile but i need to do that round after round no cool down some times just gas and go. so i need a car that is easy on parts at that level something like a hot rod style car. light easy to work on easy on the tranny/motor pretty much a sfwd set up in a hot rod car small slick/motor/turbo but still be a low 9second car when i need it to be. at the same time still be able to run the sc events when they get close. the way i see it if the rules are still a little out of my league in spfwd i might as well race hot rod and have fun . hell you can make it to the semis and bring home more than the sfwd whiner doesn't seem fair does it boys and girls

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by John Reed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One point that people need to remember is that we used to have a points championship, with a very defined set of rules. It was NHRA Sport Compact, and where is it now? Now other than SFWD, the turnout would have to be described as dismal at best in recent years. Why? Because nobody could afford to compete, save for a select few. As the rules tightened to "even" the competition, the amount of people that could keep spending to fit the ever tighter rules while remaining competitive diminished. Pretty soon you have 2-4 cars racing in a 8/16 car field. It has been cleary demonstrated by NHRA that this industry at the current time cannot fill a ProRWD, ProFWD and Hot Rod class. There are always rumors of cars, but in the end the fields are never full. At Seattle this year, the BOTI Pro field was full. Yes there was a fairly wide variation in the speed of the cars in Pro, but if you skim off the fastest (due to the rules) suddenly you don't have a full field anymore and the whole event suffers.

BOTI has been sucessful for a reason, and I think you need to look at history of BOTI vs NHRA before running headlong into a tight rule structure sort of environment. A lot of us will be out if NHRA rules are adopted, and from what I have seen in past years, the series can't afford to lose that many cars to make a couple "pro" guys happy. </TD></TR></TABLE>

John, I understand what you are talking about, but you guys need to understand that it can go both ways here, your saying if the rules come out and you guys along with other people are not happy with them that people won't show correct?. If 7sec cars show up and there is a full second to 2 full seconds between one car and the other, chances are people are not going to show up to the event, Some people will not show cause they know in there heart that it would be a waste of time to even try to compete with a 7sec car, and vise versus.

Now, you take a class that all the cars are within .5 tenths of each other, and I guarantee you more people will show to compete. Wouldn't you agree? Now thats racing!

Now you take a class where as 4 cars out of 8 are running low 9's high 8's, then you got the 4 other cars that are going to be running mid to high 7's. Do you think that will draw more people to come race? I wouldn't think so but anything can happen I guess, but people are not going to travel 12+hours with a 9sec car to compete with 7sec cars, it's just not going to happen. It's like me lining up with a top fuel car, what fun would that be other then watching the top fuel car blast down the track in 4-5 seconds? See where I am going with this?

Honestly what I think needs to happen is an extra class for cars that are running that quick and have huge turbos, GM transmissions, ect ect., We need a pro RWD class is what we need. Or pro outlaw ect. Trying to fit all the cars into one class just doesn't work out too well. It did this past season cause 95% of the people that ran BOTI were in the mid to low 9sec range in the pro-import class, it made up for some good racing. Nobody wants to see a mid 9sec car compete against a 7 sec car, it's too boring to even watch. Not everyone can build a 7sec car like you guys can, 90% of the people that run BOTI build there cars out of there own pocket with 9-5 M-F jobs. Not all of us own and run a business to make that type of cash to build a car at that level.
Again it can go both ways. I think we all just need to wait and see what Frank has to offer as far as rules go. Everyone is jumping to conclusions extremely too quick, I really think Frank will come through for all of us with a happy medium.

 

Doesn't really matter, I'm gonna beat both of you.