Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
04-03-2011, 12:44 PM
#101
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
Slight correction. I have nothing to do with XS Power anymore but I still know those guys and I can tell you that they are good people working hard everyday to make good products. I hate to see them bashed on a thread as "giv'in to you with no lube and sandpaper."
True, I am moving forward with the lithium products for what it worth to try to make a living and Shorai makes a good competitor. However the products are different. The basic differences are the size of the lithium cells, the internal resistance, cell balancing (or the lack of), and optional solid state battery monitoring. The Shorai is a basic LiFePO4 high rate (but small) pack in a box with basic wiring inside.
The LP battery (mine, formerly the XS Power) is a larger pack, includes heavy terminals that you can actually bolt a real starter cable to, includes cell balancing internally, and features heavy copper bussing. The goal is to make a battery that is very low resistance so that it cranks fast.
That brings me to why I jumped on this thread. I have the Shorai battery that 2k.civic.si referred to. I have a 2000 Honda Civic EX coupe (1.6L non-VTEC, no fun I know.) It won't start my car in the cold. The LP battery will. Why? It's fundamentally three times bigger.
When I got my Shorai and saw 59.4 Wh on one side and 14 Ah on the other, I realized that I had done the same thing 2k.civic.si had done, compared apples to oranges. I thought others should avoid the poop I stepped.
I come from the drag racing world and the team I have knows how to make parts for track use. Just check out the Pro Mods in ADRL, NHRA, IHRA, and others and you will find our LiFePO4 handy work out there.
2k.civic.si, thanks for making my first posts to Honda-tech memorable.
True, I am moving forward with the lithium products for what it worth to try to make a living and Shorai makes a good competitor. However the products are different. The basic differences are the size of the lithium cells, the internal resistance, cell balancing (or the lack of), and optional solid state battery monitoring. The Shorai is a basic LiFePO4 high rate (but small) pack in a box with basic wiring inside.
The LP battery (mine, formerly the XS Power) is a larger pack, includes heavy terminals that you can actually bolt a real starter cable to, includes cell balancing internally, and features heavy copper bussing. The goal is to make a battery that is very low resistance so that it cranks fast.
That brings me to why I jumped on this thread. I have the Shorai battery that 2k.civic.si referred to. I have a 2000 Honda Civic EX coupe (1.6L non-VTEC, no fun I know.) It won't start my car in the cold. The LP battery will. Why? It's fundamentally three times bigger.
When I got my Shorai and saw 59.4 Wh on one side and 14 Ah on the other, I realized that I had done the same thing 2k.civic.si had done, compared apples to oranges. I thought others should avoid the poop I stepped.
I come from the drag racing world and the team I have knows how to make parts for track use. Just check out the Pro Mods in ADRL, NHRA, IHRA, and others and you will find our LiFePO4 handy work out there.
2k.civic.si, thanks for making my first posts to Honda-tech memorable.
04-03-2011, 03:13 PM
#103
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 2,708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
I intended for this post to get technical, as I am still planning on putting the L925 16v XS battery in my car, mainly because it is one of the few lithium celled 16 volt batteries with built in protection to keep from overheating the cells and starting my car on fire. Honestly, when you start to have $30k+ into a race car, the safety of yourself and your investment (albeit a poor one) starts to play a large factor..
Mr. Bennet, I, for one, appreciate your commenting on this thread, and would like any other technical data you may provide..
Mr. Bennet, I, for one, appreciate your commenting on this thread, and would like any other technical data you may provide..
04-03-2011, 03:22 PM
#104
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
I, for two...
I looked into the XS battery when they first came out and almost went with one but didn't as I didn't have a generator to take to the track to charge the battery between rounds. I do now, and I'm very interested in having a 16v system.
I looked into the XS battery when they first came out and almost went with one but didn't as I didn't have a generator to take to the track to charge the battery between rounds. I do now, and I'm very interested in having a 16v system.
04-03-2011, 03:44 PM
#105
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
Thanks to both. Call me and let's talk your specific applications.
04-03-2011, 06:17 PM
#106
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
i may be misunderstanding, but arent the xs batteries lithium ion or lithium polymer? if so the battery i have been talking about is not the same thing...
i just did some dyno testing friday. saw a 5 whp gain across the board from ditching the alternator belt, pretty much the same thing as deleting the balance shaft belt or stock waterpump. not to mention the weight saved.
the 12 volt lithium ferrous phosphate battery i tested worked well. w/ the alternator in place it held 14.3 Volts and w/o the alternator it held 12.5 Volts under load.
i will be track testing next weekend...
i just did some dyno testing friday. saw a 5 whp gain across the board from ditching the alternator belt, pretty much the same thing as deleting the balance shaft belt or stock waterpump. not to mention the weight saved.
the 12 volt lithium ferrous phosphate battery i tested worked well. w/ the alternator in place it held 14.3 Volts and w/o the alternator it held 12.5 Volts under load.
i will be track testing next weekend...
04-04-2011, 07:40 AM
#107
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
The LP batteries (formerly XS Power) are LiFePO4 chemistry which is one of the many Lithium ion varieties.
A 5 whp savings by disabling the alternator does not surprise me. Typical alternators are 50% efficient at converting mechanical energy into electrical and that drops as alternator rpm goes up. At speeds over 12,000 alternator rpms it is common to see efficiencies around 30%. That being said 5 whp is reasonable but that means that you are actually getting some of this 5 whp from the battery because the car does have electrical loads while running. For this reason you have to recharge (replace that consumed whp) with a battery charger.
$500 puts it on par with the LP 12V C680. The price has come down.
A 5 whp savings by disabling the alternator does not surprise me. Typical alternators are 50% efficient at converting mechanical energy into electrical and that drops as alternator rpm goes up. At speeds over 12,000 alternator rpms it is common to see efficiencies around 30%. That being said 5 whp is reasonable but that means that you are actually getting some of this 5 whp from the battery because the car does have electrical loads while running. For this reason you have to recharge (replace that consumed whp) with a battery charger.
$500 puts it on par with the LP 12V C680. The price has come down.
04-04-2011, 07:47 AM
#109
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
Details are at www.lithiumpros.com which is temporary redirecting to the XS Power site. (That will change this week.)
Pricing? Call (865) 688-2083 but our distributors should be posting that in the weeks to come as well. They already have it so if you call any of the mail order guys they should have today's pricing in their system.
Pricing? Call (865) 688-2083 but our distributors should be posting that in the weeks to come as well. They already have it so if you call any of the mail order guys they should have today's pricing in their system.
04-04-2011, 08:11 AM
#110
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 2,708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
Glad I waited a little longer, I have last months price sheet.. Time to find out what the L925-16ack is down to.
02-07-2012, 09:30 AM
#111
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Is anyone using these XS lithium batteries now?
Here are some user responses to the Shorai packs
http://www.baautox.com/forum/index.p...tart=0&rid=359
http://www.baautox.com/forum/index.p...tart=0&rid=359
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
fireant
Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988 - 1991)
0
06-12-2007 09:23 AM
JBk24crx
All Motor / Naturally Aspirated
10
11-15-2003 11:14 PM
