Type-R 940

Okay, I've been thinking about getting some full out race pads for quite some, as I only live about 2 hours from Gingerman Raceway and will probably go there 1-2 times a month this summer. Considering that I totally destroyed my front stock pads there last time, I think it is time for some race pads!

However, I don't want to have pads that need heat to work (I am an avid autoxer), so I am thinking about using something like the Porterfield R4S for the street and Carbotech Panther Plus for the track. From what I have heard, swapping the pads on the rear on an ITR is a bit more of a pain than swapping the fronts. So, my question is, could I just leave the R4S pads in the rear all of the time and just change between the R4S and the Pather Plus on the front? Is this going to seriously affect my performance at the track? It doesn't seem that the rear brakes really do all that much, as I destroyed my fronts pads last time at the track, but the rears were totally fine.

Any advice is appreciated.

Back in Black

Many people run "race pads" on the front with OEM pads on the rear. I'll be trying the PP pads out for the first time next month at VIR, and am quite anxious. I was extremely disappointed with the R4S' performance, and quite frankly, can't wait to get them off. However, I do like them for the street and would imagine they'd do well using them for auto-x...


[Modified by darth vadeR, 9:03 AM 1/22/2002]

Dropspeed

Yes, I run the porterfield RS4 on the street, front and rear but the car is not a daily driver. When I take the car to the track I switch to Hawk Blues in the front, but I also switch rotors. If you plan on using race pads you will go from wearing pads to wearing rotors. I also have braided lines, ATE Super Blue fluid and removed all of the brake backing plates. I have no problem with braking during a full day at Gingerman, Gratton..........

Mattj

Honda318dx

most people get them for the front only, no need to upgrade the rear unless you are doing full WTW racing..

Good choice of pads though, and don't use the R4S on the track if you can help it.. They suck *** if you have any kind of speed... (compared to carbotechs)

Type-R 940

What did you not like about the R4S? Just their on track performance? Since you don't like the R4S, do you have another other suggestions for a good street/auto-x pad?

Back in Black

Matt-

I've heard that the Panther Plus is a great street/track pad. I'd love to run Hawk blues all the time, however the brake dust is quite corrosive. They're also quite noisy while cold.

As I stated earlier, I'd imagine that the R4S would in fact make a good street/auto-x pad. Hopefully someone with more auto-x experience can comment...

nsxtcjr

I don't think it's critical to have the same brand of pads on the front and rear, as long as the general characteristics are similar. (For example, I wouldn't go to the track with racing pads on the front and crappy metal masters on the rear, because you wouldn't get balanced braking and the rear pads might get too hot.)

Since the R4S and the Panther Plus are both street/track pads, I don't see any problem with mixing them. But I've got to ask - why bother swapping back and forth, if you're not using track pads anyway? Why not just leave the same pads on, for the street and for autocross?

Type-R 940

Well, I am a pretty avid autoxer, and I don't want to ever be in a situation where my pads need heat to work, thus the choice of a non-track pad. I'm also not the biggest fan of the squeal that you get from racing pads. From what I've heard the R4S are not too bad in that department.

nsxtcjr

No, you misunderstood my question. I wasn't asking why you weren't using track pads; I understand that autocross needs pads that don't take a few laps to warm up.

My question is - why not just leave the same pads on all the time? Leave the Panther Plus on all the time, or leave the R4S pads on all the time. There shouldn't be any need to change from one to the other when you go autocrossing, since whatever's on there should be fine for the autocross as well as for the street.

Type-R 940

Hmmm...I was under the impression that the Panther Plus pads were true "track" pads and required some heat in them to work (which they would not have initally at auto-x). I am wrong about this?

cobalt

The Carbotech P+ was engineered as a track/race compound. However, it is very rotor friendly, has exceptional cold bite (even when below the optimal operating range: 150F-1300F), has a moderate dust and noise level, good wear rates, along with consistent performance in the wet or dry. Many of our customers run the P+ on the street as well as on the track. TAYQ: the P+ will require 150F to reach maximum braking torque, but below 150F, the cold bite is still very good, indeed.

Possible safe/reliable setups are:

FRONT - P+
REAR - P+

FRONT - P+
REAR - R4S

You can use R4S in the front and the rear, if you wish, and just swap fronts for the track to P+, but since the P+ is very streetable, it would make more sense to just keep the P+ installed all the time if you go to the track often. Up in Michigan, where I'm from (Ann Arbor, in fact), in the dead of winter, I'd stick with the OEM Honda pads for street use. When spring comes and the track season begins, then swap front and rear to P+, which you can run on the street and track all the time until winter picks up again in November.

Andie

nsxtcjr

What he said.

cobalt

I agree with nsxtcjr: it is not critical to run the same compound in the front and the rear (but IS necessary to use the same compound from side-to-side!). In fact, I often setup cars (track/race mostly) with different compounds in the front and rear in order to proportion braking bias via compounds, such as in the case of installing a BBK front and rear, while maintaining the stock master cylinder and hydraulics (so as to avoid installing a proportioning valve and getting the TCS and/or ABS into a tizzy).

The most recent example is an NSX with Brembo Lotus calipers with 12.9" rotors installed in the front and the rear - identical brake systems front and rear. We put Panther Plus in the FRONT and Porterfield R4S in the rear. The other is with a Tarox-equipped NSX...Tarox 10-pot front and Tarox 6-pot rear. For the Tarox, the 6-pot actually has more clamping pressure/force than the 10-pot, so we put P+ in the front and regular Panther in the rear. In both cases, braking was balanced and the owners were very pleased with the results.

Andie

typer_801

They're a great auto-x pad. I use them on my daily driver/GS ITR and they work wonderfully. They offer a tremendous improvement in braking power over the OEM pads.