TRH

This is a follow-up to the "where, oh where, is my oil going" post of a while back. And that can only mean one thing - I ain't fixed it yet.
Here's the story - it's a long one:

I purchased a 90 Integra RS - 141,00 miles on it - with 1 known dead cylinder.
Leak-down test revealed bad exhaust valve on # 4 cylinder

Oil was 1 quart low when purchased and I used another quart in the 20+ miles that I drove it before pulling the head - I attributed that to the burnt valve - plug was dripping with oil

I pulled the head - one exhaust valve had a good hole burnt in it. I sent it to a reputable shop - replaced valve - both # 4 actually as he had to buy valves in pairs - two to a pack - complete valve job, cleaning, inspection, valve stem to guide clearance checked OK - new valve seals - Fel-pro - both Intake and Exhaust are the same part number- Fel-pro Gasket Kit

Upon completion, car consumed 4 qts of oil in less than 300 miles - smoked bad on start-up after sitting overnight or after sitting for a long period - 5/6 hours.
Also, car has flat throttle response - not "push you to the steering wheel type hesitation" but it doesn't have crisp acceleration
This is not noticable when cold - only after reaching Op temp. Acts like it's rich - not enough to miss but enough to affect the throttle response-
Rear bumper gets sooty black spots on it near the tailpipe - but this isn't as bad as it once was.

Or is it the oil burning?????

Plugs are black- sooty on the outside ring and white/gray on tip/ porcelain.
I also have an intermittent code 43 - Fuel Supply Problem - appears after driving for a while - but the Check Engine Light will go out after turning off and then doesn't come back on - I'm guessing that, like other cars, the code is still there _ I haven't checked.

After checking everything-
compression (3 cyl@ 185 psi - 1 @ 182 psi)
leak-down - both stone cold (#1-0, #2 - 5%, #3 -5%, #4 - 0)
and hot (#1 - 5%, #2- 2%, #3 - 0, #4 - 0)
Checked the PCV system - no problem found - EXCEPT that there really is nothing coming from the crankcase side - if you pull the pcv valve out while running and put your thumb of the hole (block side) there's nothing
Oil "chamber" tank and hoses are OK - they new now 'cuz I trashed them while taking them apart.

And, although folks tell me that it is normal, there is positive pressure in the valve cover - lots (to me) - if you pull the oil cap off, you can hear and feel it - not enough to blow lots of oil out - but it does spit a little.

I decided that the Oil Restictor o-ring that I had re-used on assembly was coming back to haunt me. Some replies to my previous post agreed

I pulled the head back-off. There was a lot of oil in the head and a ring of oil around the restrictor - like the o-ring was leaking - that wasn't there the first time I took it apart. I replaced the o-ring and head gasket.

Well, the problem didn't go away. I have driven the car about 150 miles and added two quarts of oil (Valvoline 10W-30).

To me,this has the symptoms of bad valve seals.

I pulled the valve cover - everything appears to be OK - valve seals are still on - there's about 1/2" of oil around the center exhaust valves - this is below the seals - and the area around the other valves is what I would consider normal - just a thin layer.

One thing that I did notice is that the oil looked like oil that had lots of miles on it rather than 300 - it was thin looking and black.

I changed the oil and filter - even added a can of RESTORE - rebuild in a can - stuff that I don't believe in and have never used in 25 years - but what the hell - I'm desparate.

I've only driven the car about 20 miles since but I'm reasonably confident that I will be adding oil soon.

The only thing left is the oil rings. But I find it hard to believe that there is a problem since the compression, leak-down, and cylinder walls look so good.
But....

Can someone out there help me? Certainly this isn't the only car that has had this problem.

Might my "rich" problem be diluting the oil enough that it gets past the stuff that it normally doesn't and then gets in the cylinder? I can't really smell gas in the oil but the oil didn't look good for only having such few miles on it.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Sorry, but my crude ol' VW Scirocco with 250K on it is looking pretty sweet right about now!

florduhdude

Are any of your plugs fouling out? I had a similar problem once on another car. From what you describe it sounds like the valve stem seals, but i'd check out the valve guides. Valve stem seals don't usually fail unless the guides are worn. When this happens the valve stem will rock side to side in the guide and prevent the seal from doing it's job. It will wear out the seal pretty quickly also. It's not too hard to see if the guides are worn, with the head off you need to pull the valve springs and slide the valve out about half an inch. If you can rock it side to side significantly, the guide is worn. I know you had them checked but I went through the same thing when I had this problem. The machine shop said the intake guides were fine, just the exhaust ones needed work. Well they were wrong. The only other thing I can think of would be the stem seals. If you replace them again do yourself a favor and get the Honda parts, Felpro is crap, sorry but in my experience they do not hold up well over time, and I would not want to have to replace stem seals every couple years...Honda gaskets are worth the extra money.

TRH

Yeah, This says Valve Seals, Guides all over it.
I'm gonna check out the seal issues - other posts show that Honda has two separate part # for intake and exhaust - I would assume that has to do with the heat on the exhaust. There's only about .001 difference in the stem diameter so there's really no need for a different seal that way.
The saga continues.

florduhdude

Yeah most cars have a different seal for the exhaust and intake side, I always assumed it was for heat reasons as well. If I remember correctly the intake seal on my prelude had a silber spring and the exhaust side's were black. This might still be the case with the tegs.

TRH

Ok, here's what I discovered:

Fel-pro valve seals - one part number for both intake and exhaust - i.d. of seal is .230 - valve stems are .258/.259 - only .001 difference between intake and exhaust stem diameter

Victor - different part number for intake and exhaust - however, i.d. is the same at .230-.231

Honda - different part number for intake and exhaust - I have no dimensions - reason for different numbers given to me by reputable source is that the springs that tension the seal are different in order to compensate for heat - this makes sense as it is the spring color that is used to tell them apart.

Does anyone have a bad or good experience with Fel-pro seals?

Do you really think that this difference in the springs could equal my insane oil consumption of 1 qt/100 miles?
I find it hard to believe - maybe a qt/ 1000 miles could be attributed to the spring difference but not a qt/100 miles. Heck, ol' Chevies smoked a lot ( had notoriously improper valve seals) but didn't use that much oil.

But, this is the only definitive thing that I've found. My reputable source has never used aftermarket seals.
Searching on "valve seals" has mixed results as to aftermarket being good or bad.