Crazydave

change out the radiator..
it doesn't take that long

7thGear

bump for the pics

can u please tell us what camera that is?



btw very informative post, something like this hsould be archived.

GZERO

first of all, did you ran your car at the track before without overheating at all? maybe is just original design for your car, i'm not sure....
Did the new thermostat solved anything? what do you do when you overheat? Was the Heat on??

BTW: read your post on track data analysis, woah! dude it rocks and Czech Republic, man, the tires from my bike are from over there (off road bike, MITAS brand)

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">first of all, did you ran your car at the track before without overheating at all? maybe is just original design for your car, i'm not sure....
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, it overheated on my first event. But my friends with the same ludes (h22) have no problems.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did the new thermostat solved anything? what do you do when you overheat?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't know yet, I will go on the track on Wnedsday again and I will let you know.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Was the Heat on??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, the heat was on all the time and it still overheated

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW: read your post on track data analysis, woah! dude it rocks and Czech Republic, man, the tires from my bike are from over there (off road bike, MITAS brand)</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm glad you like it

master13g

I don't know if you know this is but you might want to make sure that you are getting a good 50/50 mix of coolant and water. I know people overlook this when in a hurry. Also the most IMPORTANT part is that the water must be super clean. NO TAP water. Any small traces of minerals and deposits in the water can and will affect the effectiveness of the cooling ability and will also cause rust. This might explain those funny little particles on your radiator cap. You probably have hard water... oh the hoses should be pretty hard to squeeze when the car is running. That means that you have good pressure and there should not be any major leaks in your hoses. They should not be rock solid but it should give some steady resistance.

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by master13g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know if you know this is but you might want to make sure that you are getting a good 50/50 mix of coolant and water. I know people overlook this when in a hurry.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I put there accurate 50:50 mix, brand new fill.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by master13g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also the most IMPORTANT part is that the water must be super clean. NO TAP water. Any small traces of minerals and deposits in the water can and will affect the effectiveness of the cooling ability and will also cause rust.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Of course, I use brand new distilled water, no tap water. I don't know what was there when I bought the car used. The old thermostat looks like new, no deposits.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by master13g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This might explain those funny little particles on your radiator cap. You probably have hard water...</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's strange that when I changed the thermostat yesterday, I found these particles on the cap again! I don't know what to think about it.

Thank you!

GZERO

I want to say that you should take the rad off and take it to a radiator shop and have them clean it (it's a procces they do, i can't remember the name) and put it back and check everything (the fins, tanks, etc...) but if you say the old thermostat is pretty clean, then i'm thinking is not the cooling system, is something else...

are the fans coming on? what type of radiator cap?? BTW, yes, is normal to have the hoses preasurized

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are the fans coming on?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, both fans are running OK.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what type of radiator cap??</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's the OEM one and it holds "some" pressure, the system is pressurized by touch.

s279

my s2000 has that problem it has 80000 miles ( i only bought it for $10000) but it over heats extrodenily i just changed the oil and i cant even drive it 60 miles with out having to pull into a rest stop to cool it down please email me at http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2163319

Burke

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s279 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my s2000 has that problem it has 80000 miles ( i only bought it for $10000) but it over heats extrodenily i just changed the oil and i cant even drive it 60 miles with out having to pull into a rest stop to cool it down please email me at http://www.outwar.com/page.php?x=2163319</TD></TR></TABLE>

who the **** is this ******* - don t click on the link its some gay **** ****

petrv

So, I was on the track again, with the new thermostat (OEM Honda). My lude was still overheating

I have some dataloging (https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=826416) in my car, so I have some data for you:



Everything was fine for the first 20 minutes, but then the temperature raised up to 109C (228F) and the temp gauge went one bar above middle, so I had to slow down and wait until it cools down. After cooling, it overheated again in 4 minutes or so when I drove it hard.

Both the fans switched on in minute 10 and never swithced back off, I don't know if it is normal (I go most turns at 90kmh/60mph and about 170kmh/110mph on the straights).

When I saw the temperature raising, I set the heating to maximum heat, it helped a bit, but still raised slowly.

When I stopped after the cooling lap, the coolant was about 5cm/2inches above the MAX line in the expansion tank, the hoses were relativelly soft to touch and there was no coolant splashed outside the reservoair. When the engine cooled down (12 hours later), the coolant was on the MAX line, so it returned back to it's "original" level before the track event.

I don't know what to do next. I will probably get a "good" radiator cap from my friend first and I will try it (my friend is not overheating on the track). I personally think, that if the cap is defective, there would be no pressure in the cooling system, so the coolant would boil and splash outside of the expasion tank, right?

I think it will be my radiator

GZERO

cool data, can i put RPM and speed in there? just for gigs.....

Sure, i told you it would only do help a lil.....

I'm concerned that the hoses where relatively soft to touch, unless the cooling lap was really a cooling lap....lol seriously, the hoses should have been rock solid..... altough, it sounds normal that the level go up on the reservoir, and means the cap is at least working a lil..

Get a cap from a friend......try it, it's cheap and you can do any harm to it....

If not, then try to take the rad out and clean all the fins from dirt and crap, especially on the corners since this is the part where most of the leafs and all kinds of crap acumulate....
When you drain it to take it out take a pic inside and see how does it looks (maybe take a pic with that great camera! )
BTW: You haven't answered what kind of oil and viscocity you run...please tell me..

OH, and just to discard a basic procedure, did you purged the system? altough i'm pretty sure it should be free or air, just to get it out of the mind...

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm concerned that the hoses where relatively soft to touch, unless the cooling lap was really a cooling lap....lol seriously, the hoses should have been rock solid..... altough, it sounds normal that the level go up on the reservoir, and means the cap is at least working a lil..</TD></TR></TABLE>
It was about 5 minutes of slow driving. When I start the car from cold, the hoses are solid when getting hot.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW: You haven't answered what kind of oil and viscocity you run...please tell me..
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Valvoline 10W-40 DuraBlend semisyntetic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GZERO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
OH, and just to discard a basic procedure, did you purged the system? altough i'm pretty sure it should be free or air, just to get it out of the mind...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Of course, I purge the system every time I open it.

GZERO

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It was about 5 minutes of slow driving. When I start the car from cold, the hoses are solid when getting hot.


Valvoline 10W-40 DuraBlend semisyntetic


Of course, I purge the system every time I open it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, sounds good, i guess i'll have to wait till you get the rad out..... let me know what you see

petrv

I removed the radiator to clean it today.

After removing the cap, I noticed some pieces on the cap, I always clean it and it comes again and again. It's not metal pieces, just some kind of deposits:



The radiator looks normal to me, except of both the lower corners, that are coming into pieces (note that the green color is made by coolant while bleeding air out, I have no leak):



The grid in the radiator is not very clean, but I was able to clean it with pressure air:



When I looked inside the radiator's neck, I saw a white layer, that I could scrape down with a screwdriver:

I bought some radiator flush and applicated, but I had no luck, the deposits are still there. I filled the rad with kitchen vinegar overnight and I will see.

What do you think about this radiator, should I rather replace it?

GZERO

the deposits on the rad cap look weird to me and look like a HG, but you already replaced that......

Try to see around if there is any radiator shop that will clean it, there is a process to clean them... but the stuff you put in is not good, or at least that's my opinion about them....
The rad seems dirty and a lil beat up, but that's all i can tell from the pics....did you cleaned it well??

if you have the money, i would invest it in a aluminum rad, but only if you can afford it.

petrv

UPDATE:

I installed a new radiator and went to the track yesterday, it is a totaly "noname" brand, I couldn't find any name there:


Here is the comparsion of the old and new radiator on the 30 minutes track session, ambient temperature about 15C (60F) in both cases:


With the old radiator, the water temperature raised very quickly and when the fans switched on, it never stopped and the fans didn't lower the temperature. I tried to set heating on, but it didn't help a lot and I overheated twice (in minute 21 and 25). Once the temperature on the gauge raised one bar above the middle, I slowed down and cooled the engine. Once I started to run hard again, it overheated again in 3 minutes.

With the new radiator, the heating was off all the session. The temperature stayed constant in first 10 minutes, so I thought it will be OK, but it wasn't. The temperature started to raise in minute 10, then the fans switched on in minute 16 and this helped to lower the temperature. When the fans switched off and on again, the second "fans on" didn't help as much as in the first case and the temperature continued to raise. Finally, I overheated in minute 24, so I had to set heating on and slow down (the session was finnishing anyway, so I made one cooling lap and left the track).

What do you think about this? I can see a big improvement, but why do I still overheat on the track? I can try to set heating on from the start in next session, but should Prelude 4G VTEC overheat like this? Yes, it was 25 minutes driven very hard (on the limit I think), but I really think it should not overheat. What else to try? I have new head gasket, new thermostat and new radiator so far.

serious

have you tried a new (or known good) radiator cap yet?

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have you tried a new (or known good) radiator cap yet?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not yet, but I will try to. This is the last part I can think of and change myself.

petrv

BTW, this is my lude on the track. Notice the red hot brakes

petrv

What are the general symptoms of overheating because of a faulty radiator cap? Will I see coolant spilled out of my expansion tank? Or I will just overheat without anything visible?

60-1c1

you have a good camera

serious

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What are the general symptoms of overheating because of a faulty radiator cap? Will I see coolant spilled out of my expansion tank? Or I will just overheat without anything visible?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, that's the biggest symptom. the radiator cap has a pressure activated valve in it. when the pressure in the cooling system goes too high, the radiator cap bleeds off some coolent in the reservoir. when the coolent cools enough to create a vacuum, the cap allows coolent to flow from the reservoir back into the system. soooooo, if you have a faulty cap, your reservoir overflows and your car overheats since there's not enough pressure in the system to work.

ruthless013

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by petrv &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, this is my lude on the track. Notice the red hot brakes

</TD></TR></TABLE>

all these cool pics, and we finally get an action shot and it's blurry!?!

i have nothing constructive to contribute, other than to change the darned cap and put a helmet on. i have enjoyed this post immensly, and have saved to notepad.

good luck.

petrv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ruthless013 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
all these cool pics, and we finally get an action shot and it's blurry!?!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I am sitting in that Lude, so this pic was taken by my friend...

Stay tuned, I will have more results on Wensday.