sifoo

Hi guys,

Thought I might post here as you all are prob more experienced in this area. Setting my car up road racing and I am in search of an UCA that will give me a good amount of camber and castor adj.

I have heard bad things about Skunk2 and some mixed opinions about SPC.

What are your thoughts and recommendations?

I was thinking about the SPC's, but they only have +2degrees of castor adj.

Has anyone tried swapping the SPC's from left to right to create even more castor? How will this affect the camber adjustments on the UCA?

Or would a better option be swapping the OEM arms from left to right and just buying eccentric bushes to adj camber?

Thanks for your time




Modified by sifoo at 8:52 PM 9/5/2006

Chris F

I can't answer your question, but there have been a lot of threads on it. It helps the search if you spell Caster right.

https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=428304

Good luck,
Chris

Reid

I've got a set of these on both of the Hype R's:

BrianZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sifoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard bad things about Skunk2 and some mixed opinions about SPC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What bad things have you heard about the Skunk 2 arms? I have had them on my car for 3+ years. only problems I have had I created (bottoming out or hitting a wall)

TunerN00b

I'm actually running the SPC arms, swapped left to right, with the caster adjustments maxed out.

First alignment with it ended up around -2.6* camber, 4.2* caster. Moving the camber adjusters in more to -4.0* camber, the caster reduced to the 3.1* range. So I guess the camber slider isn't 90* from the chassis mount with them swapped. With the caster at 4.2*, it was noticeable more difficult to turn the sheering wheel, and although not difficult (power steering still installed), it was certainly more tireing to drive HPDEs.

The only problem I've had with them, is being forced to run nearly at stock height, to keep from slamming them into the chassis. Not sure if its because I have them swapped, or because of my softer rates (400/400), or because both the camber slider and offset balljoint just make the UCA sit that much higher than stock. If I could just find a UCA bushing that moved the pivot further down in the wheel well, I'd be completely happy with them.

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got a set of these on both of the Hype R's:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

What arms are those? Happen to have a URL?

sifoo

Thanks for the reply tunerNoob - great feedback

TunerNoob what did you mean by "I guess the camber slider isn't 90* from the chassis mount with them swapped" ??

Does this mean that it limits the range of camber adj compared to what it should be?

Also since im not from the U.S - where is the cheapest place to buy SPC uca's?

sifoo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got a set of these on both of the Hype R's:

</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol i think heim joints are too hectic for a daily driver!

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sifoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for the reply tunerNoob - great feedback

TunerNoob what did you mean by "I guess the camber slider isn't 90* from the chassis mount with them swapped" ??

Does this mean that it limits the range of camber adj compared to what it should be?

Also since im not from the U.S - where is the cheapest place to buy SPC uca's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What I meant was, if you swap them left to right, your caster will change as you move the sliders in and out to adjust camber. I doubt it will be very far off, left to right, if you don't have anything bent and match the camber left to right though. I do believe that the caster will stay static, if you don't swap them, but I installed mine swapped the first time and have not had them in the "correct" way.

Also keep in mind, that as we push the top of the knuckle back with adjustments to the UCA, we increase ackerman, change the bumpsteer, and possibly change the axle length. From what I've read, more ackerman is good (to a point) for fwd cars, but bumpsteer can certainly be bad and I suppose I'll find our about the axle length when/if I break them.

Now, what I'm seriously curious about, is if 95-99 Mitsu Eclipse UCAs will fit. I was looking at the front suspension of one, and their UCA balljoint is very offset from center compared to ours. Very very rough guestimation would be something over 8* caster if it actually bolted up to the Integra UCA bushings and knuckle. Then again, who knows that that would do to bumpsteer, and it would certainly increase the ackerman well beyond reasonable for a street car. With only 4.2* caster, I can't make tight parking lot maneuvers without squeeling the tires and drawing stares from everyone.


Modified by TunerN00b at 4:15 PM 9/5/2006

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sifoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol i think heim joints are too hectic for a daily driver! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't be overly worried on the UCA, as compared to say the LCA or shock mount, as the weight of the car isn't riding on them as much as the others I just mentioned. However, they would certainly be ST class illegal for autocrossers.

Chris F

So, why are you guys trying to create castor?

My ITR came from the factory with no castor. Did Honda screw up?

-Chris

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, why are you guys trying to create castor?

My ITR came from the factory with no castor. Did Honda screw up?

-Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>

I suppose it entirely depends on who you listen to, and what you want from the car.

Caster is dynamic camber based on steering angle (among other things), and like any other alignment setting has its pros and cons and can be used to fine tune vehicle behavior. Its probably also the most debated of the alignment settings, in terms of what it does and how it effects the car, and I'm certianly no expert.

I will say, that moving my Integra GSR from 1* to 4*, without changing spring rates or static camber settings, did make a very noticeable difference on turn in, with a much more responsive feeling car. It also seemed to give me more turn in oversteer, which I was looking for, and less mid corner understeer, which the car was suffering from, so overall I was very happy with it. It also makes the wheel more difficult to turn, but really reduced the car's tendency to wander on the freeway over bumps. I can't say if the same would apply to anyone else's car, because I'm sure quite a bit of observed behavior is due to personal driving style. With my last alignment change, I raised the car a little (0.5"), reduced the caster (unintentionally), and increased static front camber while reducing static rear camber, and gave the car overall more oversteer / less understeer through the entire turn.

The NSX came with something on the order of 8*, and I have heard that many people increase that to upwards of 10* for race use. Then again, how much of a MR design will carry over to a FF design is not something I am adequately educated to comment on.

And, unless I'm mistaken people, its spelled caster, not castor.
Wikipedia seems to agree with my spelling too.

From 240edge.com:
"Increased caster is advantageous for racing and, in some cases, street driving. The only disadvantage is the added steering effort. While camber gain due to caster is generally good for increasing the grip of the front tires in a corner, too much camber gain will cause the tires to heat up, lose grip, and wear out prematurely."

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">unless I'm mistaken people, its spelled caster</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct, and sadly I knew that before I even posted.

BrianZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I will say, that moving my Integra GSR from 1* to 4*, without changing spring rates or static camber settings, did make a very noticeable difference on turn in, with a much more responsive feeling car. It also seemed to give me more turn in oversteer, which I was looking for, and less mid corner understeer, which the car was suffering from, so overall I was very happy with it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

with your car on an alinment rack turn your wheel. you will see why your getting more turn in oversteer. The only down side I notice from swapping the UCA is more bump steer, its not bad enought to swap them back.

sifoo

So tunernoob - are you riding on stock height now that you have swapped the UCA's around?

Anyone else experience knocking with a lowered EK chassis .. or is it only the EG/DC chassis that has this problem?

sifoo

anyone recommend a decent shop where I can find SPC uca's at a nice price?