Pythagoras

I will be getting a bucket seat for my coupe soon and am going to be needing a harness. I've read through a lot of the information on how its not safe to install a harness unless you have a rollbar. However, my car is a daily driver and a rollbar or roll cage isnt practical at the moment. I saw an add for this sparco harness bar http://www.sparcousa.com/harness_bars.asp. I was wondering if this would be a safe alternate to a rollbar. I dont race my car at high speeds on the track and rarely autocross but mainly just daily drive at average road speeds. From what I understand, if you roll over with a harness and no rollbar, you are basically stuck in your seat and will probably get crushed. So is there no advantage to the harness bar what-so-ever other than stiffining your chasis. According to sparcos site, its safe to use with there harnesses. Id like some clarification if anybody is knowledgeable with harness bars. I appreciate your input

Thanks
Chris

gatherer

when they say it's safe to use with harnesses it means basically it locates the harness straps int he right spot for them... which means it'll help keep you in place in a collision. which if you don't have a roll cage depending on the ype of collision could result in serious injury because you body couldn't move

travis

Harness Bars
Custom fit harness bars for 3” harnesses. Sparco harness bars are manufactured with the highest ...
Price: $299.00

(I/O Port racing)
Autopower Race Roll Bar - Civic 96-00
Code: 60583
Price: $269.95

If I was going to install something in my car that I wasn't going to remove every day I would just get the roll bar. Both items are going to get in your way for passengers.

89civicdx

B pillar is strong on these hondas I wouldn't even wear a harness with a roll bar after I went through this. I wasn't sure if I should post these as I'm guilty of wearing a harness without a cage but thank god I wasn't wearing one 2 weeks ago.

I would be DEAD or a paralized if I was wearing a harness OR IF this was anywhere else but the track I would be dead.

Neck collar saved my life.

This is my head/helmet stuck in the window after the roof came down and pushed it out





See this...first your neck compresses if that doesn't move then your spine compresses, happens so fast you don't know whats going on.

CagedRuss

Asked JohnG if he thinks his extra a-pillar support tube I put in for him on his IT car is in the way. I kow this car was uncaged, but I have seen this happen on other full caged Hondas and a like do the same thing. The roof line is long in the a pillar and has a severe angle.

Glad you are not hurt or worse. Great pics, can give members an idea what can happen in a wreck on a track. Tires go off asphalt and catch grass, instant flip to roll.

I would have to agree with you on not wearing a harness in that situation. You would have been toast.

Bolt in a Roll hoop, well supported. use a removable horizontal bar for access to the rear when you need. That will keep the b-pillars in location and will help support the harness bar. Still not the best way, but better than not having it at all.

I believe most states,harnesses are not DOT legal. Least in my state they are not. Check with you local DMV.

89civicdx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CagedRuss &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Glad you are not hurt or worse. Great pics, can give members an idea what can happen in a wreck on a track. Tires go off asphalt and catch grass, instant flip to roll.

I would have to agree with you on not wearing a harness in that situation. You would have been toast.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Sad part is the car went off at low speed(probaly highway speed) and I went straight off which was ok but then I hit somthing in the infeild which launched the car and it spiraled in the air and landed on the roof. But after 10 yrs with no big incidents ***** bound to happen sooner or later.

The roof compressed my back....my insides are bruised up and I can barely tie my own shoe laces, haven't slept since the hospital because my back is killing, otherwise
no broken bones & I'm ok(kinda )

CagedRuss

I feel your pain from hear. I have flipped 3 seperate race cars. Slammed 1 into a concrete wall. All stock car driving. One car I was pushed into the front straight wall, right front tire caught, pulled car to the track, and car went flying up and did 3 somersaults and ended up on the track the wrong direction facing oncoming cars.

I only hurt my self bad once, that was the slamming into the concrete wall about 90 MPH, hit the apex of the wall, car slid about 3 feet from impact and stopped. Severe bruising, broke my right scapula (shoulder blade) horizontally. Dis located 2 fingers on right hand from steering wheel.ER Doc said out of all the wrecks and broken bone he has seen, he never saw a broken scapula. Took about 2 months not to have pain any more and 3 physical therapy sessions ( all paid for by NASCAR).

Be thankful you were not killed or worse. Hopefully you had track insurance or personal insurance to help with the cost.

I have seen car do wierd things when they go off track. Blade a grass can flip a car.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery!

89civicdx

Thanks!

You've been through the ringer. You broke your scapula! I can tell you the most distinctive pain came from both scapulas....they did xrays but I still have pain in my right scapula, It totally feels like something is floating around in there. I'm so tempted to ask for another xray but I'm going to give it another week or so. I can't believe how bad it would be if I broke it. You must have been on some serious pain killers

Scapulas are the last thing I would think would get damaged but it feels like that part of the body takes the biggest hit.

Geezer

I had an Auto-power roll bar with removable harness bar and diagonal in my 2000 Si street and track car and it was never a bother. You do give up he use of the back seat unless you want to remove stuff, but if you use the Sparco bar, you have the same problem. Besides, the roll bar looks cool.

Andrie Hartanto

I am probably in the minority here. But by looking at the pictures, I truly think if you have a harness you would be safer. The harness keeps you tighter on the seat, thus puts your head closer on the B pillar.

By not using a harness you get to move around more, and that's why your head hits the roof cause it moves forward so much.

JMHO

Targa250R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">By not using a harness you get to move around more, and that's why your head hits the roof cause it moves forward so much.</TD></TR></TABLE>
My head already hits the roof with a helmet on in my CRX Si; there are literally only millimeters to spare between my head and the roof - and that's without it crushed in.

If he had been wearing a harness, at this moment he would have been paralyzed or worse.

Without rollover protection, you need the ability to move - so that the roof will push you out of the way as it comes down. Where are you going to go if you're strapped in with a harness?

ZygSpeed

From those pics, it looks as though the b-pillar held up fairly well (not significantly collapsed, esp when looking at the rear shot), but the a-pillar took the beating and came down almost to door level.

IMHO a roll bar might not have helped, or made it worse.
A fully caged care would have fared a bit better wrt the a-pillar.

89civicdx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andrie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am probably in the minority here. But by looking at the pictures, I truly think if you have a harness you would be safer. The harness keeps you tighter on the seat, thus puts your head closer on the B pillar.

By not using a harness you get to move around more, and that's why your head hits the roof cause it moves forward so much.

JMHO</TD></TR></TABLE>

You have to look at how tall you are

I am only 5'7 which puts me closer to the a pillar then someone taller who would need the seat back more towards the B pillar.Even then the taller person is probaly grazing the roof now and then with a helmet.

As said above the roof pushed me down and out ,if I was strapped in you have no where to go but down.My neck would have snapped without the collar either way.

I remember getting compressed and then everything stops and my head is jammed in the window frame how it happened I don't know and my left arm is still holding the wheel but is totally jammed between my body and the door.

The only way I see a roll bar working out is if you use a race seat mounted as close or to the floor.

I'll look at my pics and see if theres anything more interesting to post.

You wouldn't believe how many pics of cages I've been looking at since this happened

Oh and sorry to jack this thread but I thought these pics were important to show since these harness topics come up all the time

iggyracer

First of all, where can you get on a track with out a harness? Im glad to see your alright.
As for the thread starter use snap ends and eyebolts with an H-style harness, that way you can take them out when not in use, if you have any questions call this guy at racerwholesale, he helped me a bunch. Dave x205 1-800- 397-7811

Andrie Hartanto

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89civicdx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You have to look at how tall you are

I am only 5'7 which puts me closer to the a pillar then someone taller who would need the seat back more towards the B pillar.Even then the taller person is probaly grazing the roof now and then with a helmet.

As said above the roof pushed me down and out ,if I was strapped in you have no where to go but down.My neck would have snapped without the collar either way.

I remember getting compressed and then everything stops and my head is jammed in the window frame how it happened I don't know and my left arm is still holding the wheel but is totally jammed between my body and the door.

The only way I see a roll bar working out is if you use a race seat mounted as close or to the floor.

I'll look at my pics and see if theres anything more interesting to post.

You wouldn't believe how many pics of cages I've been looking at since this happened

Oh and sorry to jack this thread but I thought these pics were important to show since these harness topics come up all the time </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not strapped tightly on the seat is actualy more dangerous, IMHO. You are lucky that you didn't break your neck or the helmet hits a potruding rock on the rollover when your head stuck on the window frame. Imagine how much more damage it will be if you hit a hard rock when your head stuck outside, or if you continue flailing around inside the car when your head is rigidly held in place by the window frame.

This is only one opinion by looking at the pictures. I have no way of knowing what happened and might happened. JMHO

FormulaIntegra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iggyracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First of all, where can you get on a track with out a harness?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Every HPDE I've ever been to did not require a harness, so long as your seat belt is working and in good condition.

iggyracer

yeah now that i thought about it your right, but who goes out on a track day trying to post lap records.

CRX Toad

Glad you weren't seriously hurt Why did you have your head out the window...were you playing Ace Ventra again?

RIP little SI