Here's a look at some a-arms I just got from King. They didn't have Skunk stickers. The others are Z-Speed that I've had for several years. Note the larger angle the ball joint carrier cup on the red ones takes. That is to allow more wheel travel before the arm hits the top of the inner fender. I run 23 inch diameter tires, and the arm hits while there is still an inch or more from the tire to the inner fender.



Note the scallop at the back of the ball joint carrier cup. I had to do this to my Z-Speeds when I discovered they were hitting the upright near full bump:


Here you can see how I cut the fender liner and pounded down the seam:



Here's a shot of a Mugen N1 front and a Bilstein. Ride height is set up identically. The Mugen has some preload. I didn't bother making droop limiters for the Bilstein fronts like I did for the rear. Maybe next time I have them apart.



This is the Honda ball joint tool. It is expensive. It is worth it.



Scott, who has seen at least one top Honda/Acura team using this tool....


[Modified by RR98ITR, 9:32 PM 12/2/2001]

 

I didn't bother making droop limiters for the Bilstein fronts like I did for the rear

How did you go about making droop limiters? And by droop limiters you mean so that the spring has some preload on it?

 

Scott, for what it is worth, be careful. I had a little bit of contact between my Skunk2 arm (from the pics, they sure look the same) & my shock tower area. It only happened on one side (arms reversed to add caster) & I am sure it was because of a off but it happened. I ended up reinstalling my Ingalls to allow me to move the arm back in further. When I did this, I needed to remove some of the material on the arms. Compared to the stock arms, there is about 3/8" more material (bolt hole to edge) toward the inside. There was some contact with the sheet metal there. I thought about 'shortening' the outer section of the box. I was concerned about compromising the strenght of the area. Another reason is what I did didn't cost me any $s, just time. How much did you pay for the puller? I priced one out at $150 from the local dealer.
Mike, who has just too much to learn still.

 

Todd,

I'm referring to a tubular piece that goes around the rod on top of the piston. A long(er) one shortens the free length of the shock. The Bilsteins came from the factory with droop limiters about 1.5-2 inches long (can't remember exactly), I think I doubled their length at the back (it was necessary to make installation more humane).

Mike,

That sounds about right ($!) on the puller. Oh, yeah I know all about what touches what and where (with the Z-Speed - so I'll look it all over closely when I swap on the new red arms). I thought about cutting them down a bit too. This is why whoever built the DC cars went to the trouble of making up something different.

By the way, King says they have been selling Skunk arms now that they are sometimes available again and have the greater angle on the cup. They had been buying the miscellaneous bits and building their own before.

Scott, who has much to learn as well...hopefully nothing he's already learned before...dohhhh......

 

Hey, Scott do you happen to know the inner diameter of the fork portion of the tool? Facom makes an identical tool, but it comes in 3 different sizes... a 16mm, a 22mm, or a 32mm - and it is damn hard to find. I finally found a place that says it carries it (although I have not contacted them yet to see if they stock it).
Here's the link for those who may be interested:

http://www.ultimategarage.com/facauto.html

You may notice that 2 out of 3 of them are way cheaper than the Honda counterpart...
I need to buy one of those, it sure beats the ol' pickle fork.
thanks

 

A little OT: what's the proper way to get ball joints back together?
Thanks.

 

tighten the nut and it should press itself back together, is what I was thinking.

 

The manual give a torque range. Tighten the nut to the lower part of the torque range. Tighten some more as needed to line up the cotter pin/castle nut. Install pin.

 

Update: that ultimate garage place has the 22mm tool in stock right now. Does anyone know if that is the right size for us Honda folks? The guys there work on them funky german cars, so they don't know if that is the size I/we need...
thanks

 

JC Whitney has the ball joint sperator for 17 bux.

PN: 81ZX2149N

 

um. Cool. I feel silly now, having looked for the damn thing for several months. Do you know if that 11/16" (~18mm) opening is wide enough for the upper and lower control arms in the front of the 'teg? I guess next question is "how good is the tool?" But quite frankly, for 17 bux, who cares? It's not like I use it every day or anything.
thanks

 

Are those off the shelf bilsteins just modified by shocktec, the valve near the bottom is for the gas right?

Also how come you use your full bumpstop? Doesn't the mugen shock ride on the bumpstop? Is that OK?

 

Scott, do you think that the contact between the upper arms and the tub is caused (in part) by short shocks? Seems to me that the short shocks would allow additional wheel travel (duh), possibly into an area that lets the upper arm contact the tub of the car.

So I guess the question becomes, how short, given x spring rate, is right?

 

Sebastien,

The slot in the Honda ball joint tool is 28mm. I own alot of pullers, but I went ahead and bought this one. If the identical tool is super cheap from JCW then go for it - ouch.

89civicdx,

Yes, the black one is the Shocktek modified off the shelf Bilstien, and the Schraeder is for the gas.

I use the bumpstops that came with the Mugen N1's unmodified - some others don't. I don't know the rate curve, but I don't mind some steepening progression near bottom.

Karl,

You might think that at first look. But remember that those a-arms take up alot of room that the stockers don't. I've never put it all together with the stockers just to see, but I'd bet that the Mugens could be made to bottom just as the arms hit (at about an inch more wheel travel than I can currently get). I'm running the Mugens with the bodies adjusted to max length (why not since I can't bottom them) and with minimal preload (I didn't want to give up any droop travel on the inside wheel). I'm running rocker clearances of 5 front and 5.75 rear and I'm not bottoming, so the practical and legal considerations suggest that most users would be happy with that general setup. But those ride height measurements exceed UTCC maximum limits, so I've got some work to do if I expect to avoid protests. If I can generate enough downforce I may still be legal at higher static ride height. I'm currently studying the Lotus 88 for idea's. Yep, I'm going to reverse engineer it.

Scott, who's reading comprehension suffers when he cries while reading Motorsport.....

 

So by the sound of this the skunk peices are the way to go, if even King, who manufactors their own, prefers to sell them when they can get them???

 

thanks for the info, Scott. The JCW tool is only 18mm - but I ordered it anyway. I'll give it a test fit before starting anything with it and report back. The place I found that carries the Facom versions (at least equal in quality to the Honda part) has the 22mm in stock, and it is listed on their site for $65. Still cheaper than Honda, just not quite the same screaming deal the JCW tool is. Hopefully I'll get the tool in the mail quickly so I can determine whether it will work or not.
thanks again (and not just for the tool info, but also for all the other invaluable suspension setup info you posted recently.)

 

How does one R&R rubber ball joint boot on upper control arm? You know what I mean, right? The grease packed rubber boot around the ball joint on the upper control arm that connects to the knuckle? Can this boot be removed, repacked, and replaced? Or do I need to get an entire upper control arm? I'm afraid I may have diminished the boot's structural integrity when using a tie rod end separator (two pronged fork wedge thing) to separate the knuckle from the UCA.
Thanks.



[Modified by 4doorH22, 3:13 PM 12/4/2001]

 

Well, I am not sure whether you can take it apart and "rebuild" it. I am pretty sure that you can't buy another Honda ball joint only, they only sell the whole A-arm assembly. Maybe you can knock it out, and replace it with a generic part? I dunno. I replaced mine a few months ago, and I just ordered replacement OEMs from A&H. I don't remember the price off the top of my head, but if you call'em up, they will be happy to give you a quote (I have found them to be on average 30-40% cheaper than my local dealership).

Hope this helps somewhat.


[Modified by SJR, 8:58 PM 12/4/2001]

 

How long does it typically take to R&R the Skunk kit? I called a couple shops because I thought that I could have them do it for the cost of the special tool you need, but each one of them said it would be 3.3 hours of labor for both sides, plus an allignement. (which ends up being over $300)
This seems out-of-line to me. Reading the Helm guide on what to do to R&R these things it seems that it should take about 30 minutes per side, plus allignment.
Am I wrong? Please help me set my perception of this procedure.
Thanks!

 

Cool, thanks SJR. Do you mean you purchased the whole OE upper control arm? If so, is the ball joint already greased and ready for a direct bolt on?

 

yeah, it's ready to go. Plug and play - A-arm with the ball-joint, greased, booted. And if you don't replace your tie-rod ends, you may not even need an alignment.
Keep in mind, that was on my teg. I assume it's the same for accords, but I don't know that for a fact.

 

Scott, looks like the JCW tool that I ordered will not work properly. I measured the ball joint at the point where the fork of the tool is supposed to go, and my trusty caliper read something like 27mm... So that 18mm tool ain't gonna cut the mustard. Oh well, it was cheap anyway.
On the other hand, I got lucky and found the Facom 32mm version of the tool (2.5kg, yikes!) used for around $100. I'll be receiving that in the mail next week. I think retail for the Facom is between $150 and $200.

Just thought I'd let you know that the money you spent was justified after all...