Just trying to see if you would all be interested in buy in these if I was to decide to build these. However it will be your guy's responsibility to cut and file your bumpers. Let me know what you guys think.

 

I don't think you can call that ram air. That is bringing fresh/cold air up to the cone, but ram air would be continous tubing straight from that hole to the throttle body...


Matt

 

the ducts themselves can easily be able to be connected straight to the TB if you wanted however I need a filter for daily driving Keep in mind I will make and sell just the ducts and it will be up to you to run tubing however way you want.

 

I would be interested!

One problem tho, I'm currently using my passenger side foglight hole to provide coldair to my K&N/AEM setup.

Do you think you could somehow modify it to provide a hole for the brake ducting and a hole to feed the K&N?


Modified by SpiceyRice at 4:39 PM 5/13/2003

 

I already have a headlight ram air set-up, but I might be interested in the brake ducts. How would you route them?


Matt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpiceyRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would be interested!

One problem tho, I'm currently using my passenger side foglight hole to provide coldair to my K&N/AEM setup.

Do you think you could somehow modify it to provide a hole for the brake ducting and a hole to feed the K&N?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could probably use some Y tubing to force air to the filter and brake.

 

I think J28S was telling me once that to produce a ram air effect, the wind speed needs to be above 200 or 300 MPH or something hugely high like that. For some reason I am thinking this was a pilot friend of his debunking the whole "ram air" thing in automovia. Cold air - I think - is all we get from these things. I could be wrong on this, maybe Jon remembers this conversation better - I am bad about mixing these things up.

 

score one for phatty.

while not ram air, cool air is always a good thing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think J28S was telling me once that to produce a ram air effect, the wind speed needs to be above 200 or 300 MPH or something hugely high like that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Iceman claims a ram air effect on their Civic headlight intake at 75mph. As soon as I get it installed I'll let you know if it seems to work or not.


Matt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phat-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think J28S was telling me once that to produce a ram air effect, the wind speed needs to be above 200 or 300 MPH or something hugely high like that. For some reason I am thinking this was a pilot friend of his debunking the whole "ram air" thing in automovia. Cold air - I think - is all we get from these things. I could be wrong on this, maybe Jon remembers this conversation better - I am bad about mixing these things up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct. I believe 200.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Milano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Correct. I believe 200.</TD></TR></TABLE>

On ram air ws6's/ls1's, the effect begins to start at 5mph.

 

Since I got one point, I'll double down

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- Below about Mach 0.5 (or about half the speed of sound), air is considered “incompressible”. That is, even if the correct nozzle is selected, and the air is slowed down (the official term is “stagnated”) there will be zero trade. No kinetic energy will be traded in as work capable of compressing the air. The reasons for this are not discussed here; the reader may consult any reputable fluid mechanics textbook for confirmation of this fact. In plain English, a car is just too slow for ram air to work.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Conclusion

Ram air is a myth because it does not exist, for the following reasons:

- Air is incompressible at any automobile speed., meaning that the kinetic energy of the air cannot be used to compress the air and raise the static pressure.

- The “ram air” nozzles commonly employed on automobiles tend to be the wrong shape. A divergent nozzle is required for ram air. Straight-profile scoops cannot provide a ram air effect.

Select one of the two types of intakes, warm air, or cold air. Beyond that its just about looks.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

from this article FWIW - http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

maybe someone with more scientific knowledge can comment on this (I know I am ill-equiped to do so).

 

Score 2 for phatty.

The car posessses a certain kinetic energy (1/2 mv(^2)), which is not enough to compress air, in their current state of design, to produce any appreciable compression.

I suppose you could get a car to generate compressed air, but the trade off in aerodynamics of the frontal area would probably be too severe.

Remember, compressing air into the engine is not the same as compressing air around the car (i.e. downforce), given the flow irregularities of the manifold.

 

Let's put it this way:

A "ram air" intake leads one to believe that there would be a positive gage pressure inside the intake. Essentially, this is what forced induction devices such as turbo or superchargers so. As stated, with the vehicle speeds and nozzle designs available on roadgoing cars, this is impractical.

Ideally, at wide open throttle (WOT) the gage pressure in the intake should be zero. However, particularly at high engine speeds, there is a slightly negative gage pressure in the system due to flow losses.

So, one could, in theory, gain SOME of that negative pressure back by relocating the intake to a zone of positive air pressure generated by the vehicle's forward motion. It may result in a measurable difference in the mass flow rate of the air into the cylinder, which is ultimately what we care about.

.RJ, I don't think this is fairly compared to aerodynamic downforce. Manifold air pressures are a static gage measurement, whereas lift and downforce is a result of dynamic pressure differentials resulting from different relative airspeed over the vehicle surfaces.

Can anyone confirm my thoughts?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by allenp &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.RJ, I don't think this is fairly compared to aerodynamic downforce. Manifold air pressures are a static gage measurement, whereas lift and downforce is a result of dynamic pressure differentials resulting from different relative airspeed over the vehicle surfaces.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats exactly why i was saying its not a fair comparison.

I'm sure you can generate positive pressure with something moving 100mph. But the aerodynamic tradeoffs wouldnt be worth it.

Airflow in the engine is best modeled using acoustics anyways.

 

blehh

Lets stay on topic here

Ram air or not, any cold air ducting is beneficial for the most part

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=490096

I did some datalogging with my ghetto cold air setup. as speeds increased, there was a trend with having lower intake temps.

I can measure ram air (if its actually working) MAP .maybe if I routed a straight 4" duct from the bumpet to throttle body I might be able to get positive map. otherwise the map is usually at .98 @ full throttle