KiddEng

it has been ongoing for a few months now, my motor uses about 1qt every 6-700 miles. It's my DD so it sees quite a few miles every week.

little background: '00 itr fully built, stock itr head, t3/to4e turbo, tuned on hondata. around 7k on build, little more on head.

did compression and leak down, 185 180 185 185 and perfect leak down 0% across the board. With these numbers i have no idea why i burn/lose so much oil every week. Its running stock pcv, soon to be replaced... but i lose the same amount of oil whether or not i boost or stay in vac. (as of late, i have only reached boost once in a blue moon, mostly in vac while driving.)

Only in the morning when i go to start up the car, during warmup after about a min, white/blueish smoke comes streaming out for 2-4 mins. then regular steam comes streaming out afterwards (no more blueish smoke). puff of smoke once in a while during driving.

with the test results, this leads me to either the valve seals or oil rings...unless there is something else im missing? I'd like to get the opinion of the turbo community on what can the cause be and possible options to take to remedy this.

if A. valve seals: take off head and rebuild with new valve train and new seals
or just replace valve seals to see if they are the problem? save a little money...spend on other goodies

if B. oil rings: tear down bottom end?

CLIFFS: built itr/stock head, drinks oil, comptest/leakdown came out ok, smokes during warmup...is it valve seals, oil rings, something else?

EDIT!: It is not the previous turbo, a new turbo is on now and still lose oil

heres a pic to get more views...i know i like to click on pic threads



TIA




Modified by KiddEng at 5:31 PM 1/17/2006

Finland

curious what pistons. Some expand more than others, sounds like the compression is good when it's hot, but maybe the piston clearance is too loose when it's cold?

KiddEng

I'm running JE flat tops, as im told they have an expansion factor when warming up, so its a possibility the tolerances are loose. but will i lose that much oil during warmup?

it seems im losing oil the whole time my motor is on though...

OH! forgot to mention, the builder took a boro-scope(SP?) something like that and saw oil on top of pistion 2 and 3. and there was some oil presense on the plugs.

EJ1 wilcox

Could it be your turbo?

My old car started losing oil and I couldn't figure out why until I removed my lower charge pipe and it was full of oil. LoL. The compressor seal was leaking oil into my charge pipes, my intercooler had over a quart of oil in it.

Just something to check and rule out.

yellowturbo

I bet on your turbo... you probably need a rebuild.

KiddEng

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could it be your turbo?

Just something to check and rule out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yep thats what i thought at first too... and when i took off charge pipe sure enough there was oil sludge in there... so i replaced the turbo with a brand new one and clean out the pipes to rule that out. I have about 1k miles on the new turbo and im still getting the oil loss no smoke while driving.

Sidenote: with the old turbo it had bad compressor seal, and there was noticable oil smoke exiting my exhaust whenever i drive. since the new turbo im only getting oil loss now and smoke during warmup.

thanks so far for the help

EJ1 wilcox

Wow. New turbo!

Okay, my money is on valve seals then. The reason they could be smoking at startup only is if they are leaking just a bit.

When your car sits it gives the oil time to leak passed the seals and accumulate on the top of the valve or drip into the cylinder. Then, on startup, it will burn that smoke off within the first few minutes.

Once the initial oil has been burnt off and your car is running, the oil leak might be so neglidgable that you wouldn't even notice it.

I say, take the head off and have a machine shop inspect the seals, then replace the ones that are worn and leaking. No need to tear the whole thing apart and replace everything.

gunslinger

i had a similar problem 2001 b18c5 turbo burning 1 qt a week. the problem was all 8 exhaust guides were bad replaced them and seals . no more burning oil

Boosted2K

PCV??? How do you drive?

KiddEng

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boosted2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">PCV??? How do you drive?</TD></TR></TABLE>

stock setup, right now staying in vac the whole commute to work and back.
will be replacing with catchcan asap

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gunslinger &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a similar problem 2001 b18c5 turbo burning 1 qt a week. the problem was all 8 exhaust guides were bad replaced them and seals . no more burning oil</TD></TR></TABLE>

i really hope this is it. again i'd rather spend money on other parts given this head can support alot of hp stock.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EJ1 wilcox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow. New turbo!

Okay, my money is on valve seals then. The reason they could be smoking at startup only is if they are leaking just a bit.

When your car sits it gives the oil time to leak passed the seals and accumulate on the top of the valve or drip into the cylinder. Then, on startup, it will burn that smoke off within the first few minutes.

Once the initial oil has been burnt off and your car is running, the oil leak might be so neglidgable that you wouldn't even notice it.

I say, take the head off and have a machine shop inspect the seals, then replace the ones that are worn and leaking. No need to tear the whole thing apart and replace everything.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

looks like im gonna head that route, i was looking into ferrea valvetrain but its some $$$ i'd rather just replace the seals and get a equal length, new dp and ic

thanks guys

KiddEng

also you think the short gears in the itr tranny have something to do with oil cooking off? my commute is about 30 mins of 4k rpm cruising @ 80mph... can this cause the oil to over heat and burn off?

vtecspeed1320

i was going to say turbo. but if you got a new one then i would have no idea as well. maybe some sort of leakin with the oil drain/return lines???

Weq

my guess is valve guides or seals.

null.

my guess is also valve guides. you can also look into bronze valve guides which have a smaller clearance

Targa4Life

I bet everything i have on the turbo seals. I never bother to read anything else afeter you symptoms so someone might have already said this. I had the same EXACTLY the same problem. Try turning down the oil pressure to your turbo using some sort of restriction of needle valve (make sure you have a guage telling you what your getting to the turbo though.) and dont let it get anymore than 25psi Hot . also at least 5psi idle hot. Bet you that you will have no more problems.

KiddEng

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa4Life &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I bet everything i have on the turbo seals. I never bother to read anything else afeter you symptoms so someone might have already said this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

would you like to paypal me? i'll give you the address to send everything

thanks for the input, but i have already ruled out it being the turbo...i should edit the first post. At first i hoped it was just the turbo seals... and inspection of the charge pipes backed that up. SO a new turbo went on and alot of the visible blue smoke while driving has disappeared, but still get the smoke on startup and oil loss over the week of driving.

oil feed line is -3an, oil return is -10an

SOHC_MShue

I have the same problem on my sohc. I know a good bit of oil loss is accumulated to a leak at the oil return...even though I think it still loses a bit much for just having that one leak. Loses probably about a quart every 1000-1500 miles. Compression checks out fine and I never see smoke while driving. Lately i've noticed a little bit of smoke on cold startup, but i think its just condensation and if I see a slight bluish tint then its just in my imagination

Targa4Life

I never had any oil in my charge pipes either. Like I said before how much oil pres are you sending to your turbo. Even a new turbo will still squeeze some oil through the seala if the pressure is to high. I never even changed the seals or the turbo to cue my problem, just downed the pressure and voila. A turbo car will always burn a small amount of oil but nothing like what you are experiencing. I cant really tell from the pic but is that a SS autocrome wastegate? If so, did you buy the kit because it the same on I have. I know i know, ss autocrap but I bought it before I even heard of all the negative things about them and untill it does me wrong I cant say anything bad about it. The turbo cant handle the oil pressure so even brand new its not the same quality as a garrett or whatnot which probably would'nt leak right away but these do. I may be wrong about what kit you have so feel free to correct me if im wrong.

KiddEng

nope not ssautochrome... tial wg, and garrett t3/to4

i still think its the head... if im losing that much oil through the turbo i should see it get into the piping