Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article
10-30-2006, 08:26 AM
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (Doespike)
I am sorry but I have to agree with Ken on this one. If you are going to do a review on the performance winter tire why are not the best ones their? Also the tirerack only test 4 tire at a time is because of the way the are categorised. You are not going to test the SPT with the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS D3 makes no sence.
Anyways for the tires they tested you could get much better then that.
Anyways for the tires they tested you could get much better then that.
10-30-2006, 08:49 AM
#27
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (DaveSi677)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveSi677 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also the tirerack only test 4 tire at a time is because of the way the are categorised. You are not going to test the SPT with the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS D3 makes no sence.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There are additional reasons why they only test 3-4 tires at a time - because that's how many identical cars they use when they conduct their tests, and because of the work involved. So they only test 3-4 tires of the same performance category (like you mention - all top-of-the-line tires, or all budget all-seasons, etc). The good news is, they conduct those tests frequently; they publish new test results all the time, especially when a new, noteworthy tire hits the market. And, if you look at their test results, you'll see that they often include a "segment leader" as a basis of comparison. For example, in budget performance tires, the Yokohama ES100 is a very popular tire that many people are familiar with. So they keep including it each time another budget performance tire hits the market (six times so far). This can make it easy to compare tires that weren't tested side by side; for example, if the Avon Tech M500 does better in testing than the ES100, and the ES100 does better than the Kumho 712, then it's safe to assume that the M500 is better than the 712, too. (For those folks who don't get a chance to actually try out a lot of different kinds of tires.)
There are additional reasons why they only test 3-4 tires at a time - because that's how many identical cars they use when they conduct their tests, and because of the work involved. So they only test 3-4 tires of the same performance category (like you mention - all top-of-the-line tires, or all budget all-seasons, etc). The good news is, they conduct those tests frequently; they publish new test results all the time, especially when a new, noteworthy tire hits the market. And, if you look at their test results, you'll see that they often include a "segment leader" as a basis of comparison. For example, in budget performance tires, the Yokohama ES100 is a very popular tire that many people are familiar with. So they keep including it each time another budget performance tire hits the market (six times so far). This can make it easy to compare tires that weren't tested side by side; for example, if the Avon Tech M500 does better in testing than the ES100, and the ES100 does better than the Kumho 712, then it's safe to assume that the M500 is better than the 712, too. (For those folks who don't get a chance to actually try out a lot of different kinds of tires.)
10-30-2006, 08:56 AM
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (nsxtasy)
I had thought of that too! Didn't mention it but its good you pointed it out 
10-30-2006, 09:18 AM
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Given your concern, you're probably better off getting a set of true winter tires than all-seasons, for winter use on your other wheels. And, in particular, the "studless" winter tires (as the Tire Rack calls them), rather than the "performance winter" tires.
(However, you can do better still by getting separate summer tires and winter tires. I'm sure you'll enjoy the SPT when you get them.)</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is ideally what I'd like to have.
And Tirerack really is a great site to compare specs
Modified by Doespike at 1:34 PM 10/30/2006
Modified by Doespike at 1:44 PM 10/30/2006
(However, you can do better still by getting separate summer tires and winter tires. I'm sure you'll enjoy the SPT when you get them.)</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is ideally what I'd like to have.
And Tirerack really is a great site to compare specs
Modified by Doespike at 1:34 PM 10/30/2006
Modified by Doespike at 1:44 PM 10/30/2006
10-30-2006, 06:28 PM
#31
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (schlit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dunno, read the article. http://www.consumerreports.org...1.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>
On their website, you can't read the ratings unless you have a (paid) subscription to their site. (I've read it in print. It's a good issue - the current one on the newsstands - because it's the big electronics issue, with big-screen TVs, computers, etc.)
On their website, you can't read the ratings unless you have a (paid) subscription to their site. (I've read it in print. It's a good issue - the current one on the newsstands - because it's the big electronics issue, with big-screen TVs, computers, etc.)
10-30-2006, 06:41 PM
#34
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (schlit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you buy a pair of winter tires and a pair of summer tires, what do you do in the Fall and Spring? There is some overlap there...you dont want to get stuck driving in the snow on a summer tire, nor driving while it's 75 degrees on a winter tire.</TD></TR></TABLE>
First of all, it's best to buy a set of winter tires and a set of summer tires. IOW, four of the same tires, never two of one and two of the other.
In fall and spring, you use summer tires. Summer tires are generally fine when the temperatures are normally above freezing during the day and it's unlikely to snow. You want the winter tires on when it's often below freezing (for temperature reasons as well as the fact that that's when it's likely to snow). The best time to change tires depends on where you live, on the normal temperatures and on when snow usually falls. (You can look up average snowfall and normal high temperatures for most major U.S. cities in the data tables linked on this website.) The winter season is shorter in areas that have milder winters (i.e. St. Louis, Washington DC), and longer in areas that have harsher winters (i.e. Minneapolis, most of Canada). Here in Chicago, I generally change over to winter tires in early to mid December, and back to summer tires in early to mid March. I have them on separate wheels and keep them in my garage, so I can adjust the dates and even switch back if needed, such as if there's a good snow in November or an abnormally late blizzard after I changed back to summer tires (not that common, but it happens). If I didn't have a garage (or a separate set of wheels) and it were inconvenient to switch back and forth, I would probably leave the winter tires on a bit longer at both ends of the season. (If you use winter tires on warmer days, it's not ideal but at least you'll get where you're going, so if it's tough to switch, it's best to err on the side of caution.)
Hope that all makes sense...
First of all, it's best to buy a set of winter tires and a set of summer tires. IOW, four of the same tires, never two of one and two of the other.
In fall and spring, you use summer tires. Summer tires are generally fine when the temperatures are normally above freezing during the day and it's unlikely to snow. You want the winter tires on when it's often below freezing (for temperature reasons as well as the fact that that's when it's likely to snow). The best time to change tires depends on where you live, on the normal temperatures and on when snow usually falls. (You can look up average snowfall and normal high temperatures for most major U.S. cities in the data tables linked on this website.) The winter season is shorter in areas that have milder winters (i.e. St. Louis, Washington DC), and longer in areas that have harsher winters (i.e. Minneapolis, most of Canada). Here in Chicago, I generally change over to winter tires in early to mid December, and back to summer tires in early to mid March. I have them on separate wheels and keep them in my garage, so I can adjust the dates and even switch back if needed, such as if there's a good snow in November or an abnormally late blizzard after I changed back to summer tires (not that common, but it happens). If I didn't have a garage (or a separate set of wheels) and it were inconvenient to switch back and forth, I would probably leave the winter tires on a bit longer at both ends of the season. (If you use winter tires on warmer days, it's not ideal but at least you'll get where you're going, so if it's tough to switch, it's best to err on the side of caution.)
Hope that all makes sense...
10-30-2006, 08:34 PM
#35
Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (nsxtasy)
MUCH better performance at a MUCH lower price makes it a no-brainer, even for those who care more about price than performance.
[/QUOTE]
but for a consumer that wants his tire to last longer than 30 to 40,000 miles then that is where the rest of this comes in to play
10-30-2006, 08:45 PM
#36
Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (schlit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you buy a pair of winter tires and a pair of summer tires, what do you do in the Fall and Spring? There is some overlap there...you dont want to get stuck driving in the snow on a summer tire, nor driving while it's 75 degrees on a winter tire.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i put on my winter tire's on mid november and take them off end of march to be on the safe side in washington...we don't generally see hardly any snow but do get a lot of black ice and ice in general....today it was 25 degrees this morning at 7:00am
10-31-2006, 10:20 AM
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (nsxtasy)
Ken (nsxtasy) sent me this thorough write-up on winter tires and I thought others would benefit from seeing it, with his permission of course 
BTW I chose the Dunlop Graspic DS-2s. The price and quality of grip combination sold me.
"There are a lot of excellent winter tires on the market. They tend to break down into two groups:
a) tires that have the very best traction on snow and ice, but have so-so ride and handling on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, Dunlop Graspic DS-2, and Michelin X-Ice. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "studless ice and snow tires".)
b) tires that have good traction on snow and ice and in cold, although not quite as good as the previous group, but they also have very good ride and handling characteristics on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22, Dunlop Winter Sport M3, and the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "performance winter tires".)
The choice between these two categories depends on the climate in your area, how much highway driving you do in the winter, how much you care about ultimate snow/ice grip versus ride comfort, whether you have another vehicle to use in the worst of winter, etc. Oh, and the tires in category (a) are usually significantly less expensive than category (b), which may be important. For example, I want the best snow/ice traction and I don't mind sacrificing some ride comfort and handling for those three months a year (mid-December to mid-March around here), and winter weather here in Chicago can be fairly nasty, so I have category (a) tires. But your priorities may be different, and you might be better off getting the category (b) tires.
Keep in mind that one set of winter tires may last you 6-8 winter seasons, if you drive on them 2-3K miles per winter, so you won't need to buy another set for many years.
The best category (a) "studless" tires, IMHO, are the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50. These tires have a "multicell compound" in the outer half of the tread, which acts like a sponge to soak up the moisture which melts when you drive on snow and ice. They really grip much, much better than other tires on those surfaces. The Michelin X-Ice is also very, very good."
BTW I chose the Dunlop Graspic DS-2s. The price and quality of grip combination sold me."There are a lot of excellent winter tires on the market. They tend to break down into two groups:
a) tires that have the very best traction on snow and ice, but have so-so ride and handling on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, Dunlop Graspic DS-2, and Michelin X-Ice. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "studless ice and snow tires".)
b) tires that have good traction on snow and ice and in cold, although not quite as good as the previous group, but they also have very good ride and handling characteristics on days when it's not so cold; examples include the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22, Dunlop Winter Sport M3, and the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2. (The Tire Rack calls these tires "performance winter tires".)
The choice between these two categories depends on the climate in your area, how much highway driving you do in the winter, how much you care about ultimate snow/ice grip versus ride comfort, whether you have another vehicle to use in the worst of winter, etc. Oh, and the tires in category (a) are usually significantly less expensive than category (b), which may be important. For example, I want the best snow/ice traction and I don't mind sacrificing some ride comfort and handling for those three months a year (mid-December to mid-March around here), and winter weather here in Chicago can be fairly nasty, so I have category (a) tires. But your priorities may be different, and you might be better off getting the category (b) tires.
Keep in mind that one set of winter tires may last you 6-8 winter seasons, if you drive on them 2-3K miles per winter, so you won't need to buy another set for many years.
The best category (a) "studless" tires, IMHO, are the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50. These tires have a "multicell compound" in the outer half of the tread, which acts like a sponge to soak up the moisture which melts when you drive on snow and ice. They really grip much, much better than other tires on those surfaces. The Michelin X-Ice is also very, very good."
10-31-2006, 02:40 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The best time to change tires depends on where you live, on the normal temperatures and on when snow usually falls.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Indeed, for example I have had mine on for over a week now and already put them to good use.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would probably leave the winter tires on a bit longer at both ends of the season. (If you use winter tires on warmer days, it's not ideal but at least you'll get where you're going, so if it's tough to switch, it's best to err on the side of caution.)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That being said remember that if one has winter tires on when it is too warm (summer-ish) one can expect a significant decrease in performance; such as increased stopping distances. I just recently read this in an article but alas, I can't seem to find it.
Speaking of blizzaks. Ken, which is better; the Revo1 or the WS-50?
Cheers.
The best time to change tires depends on where you live, on the normal temperatures and on when snow usually falls.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Indeed, for example I have had mine on for over a week now and already put them to good use.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I would probably leave the winter tires on a bit longer at both ends of the season. (If you use winter tires on warmer days, it's not ideal but at least you'll get where you're going, so if it's tough to switch, it's best to err on the side of caution.)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That being said remember that if one has winter tires on when it is too warm (summer-ish) one can expect a significant decrease in performance; such as increased stopping distances. I just recently read this in an article but alas, I can't seem to find it.
Speaking of blizzaks. Ken, which is better; the Revo1 or the WS-50?
Cheers.
10-31-2006, 02:57 PM
#39
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (old man neri)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That being said remember that if one has winter tires on when it is too warm (summer-ish) one can expect a significant decrease in performance; such as increased stopping distances.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True. Winter tires are not designed to be all that great in warmer weather. That doesn't mean you can't use them - heck, just about anywhere (even Alaska) has an occasional warm day in the middle of the winter. But they'll feel "mushy" and won't respond the way summer tires do at the same temperatures.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Speaking of blizzaks. Ken, which is better; the Revo1 or the WS-50?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The REVO 1, although both tires are very good and both feature Bridgestone's multicell compound to soak up moisture like a sponge. The Tire Rack has tested the REVO 1 against the WS-50 twice, here and here.
True. Winter tires are not designed to be all that great in warmer weather. That doesn't mean you can't use them - heck, just about anywhere (even Alaska) has an occasional warm day in the middle of the winter. But they'll feel "mushy" and won't respond the way summer tires do at the same temperatures.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old man neri »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Speaking of blizzaks. Ken, which is better; the Revo1 or the WS-50?</TD></TR></TABLE>
The REVO 1, although both tires are very good and both feature Bridgestone's multicell compound to soak up moisture like a sponge. The Tire Rack has tested the REVO 1 against the WS-50 twice, here and here.
10-31-2006, 04:56 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports Performance Allseason / Winter Tire Info Article (schlit)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So is it appropriate to say that you're sacraficing performance and increasing risk of an accident in the variable conditions of the Fall and Spring to gain performance in the winter and summer?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No. There is no sacrifice in performance (or increased risk of an accident) in the fall and spring, when weather is appropriate for summer tires.
Summer tires are called that because they're not designed for winter conditions. A more appropriate name would be "spring-summer-fall tires", but it would be too much of a mouthful.
No. There is no sacrifice in performance (or increased risk of an accident) in the fall and spring, when weather is appropriate for summer tires.
Summer tires are called that because they're not designed for winter conditions. A more appropriate name would be "spring-summer-fall tires", but it would be too much of a mouthful.
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