CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:30 PM 11/16/2006

vtecsi00

to bad most of the time they don't know what there are talking about.......especially when they rated the goodyear tripletread as the one of the best quiet riding tire and they forgot to mention that it out of round like crazy

CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:30 PM 11/16/2006

vtecsi00

part of the time they are correct.......but most of the time in my opinion they are a joke to me....i understand the way they do there research but sometimes wonder if there motivated by some of the companie's out there

nsxtasy

That article is a travesty. The biggest problem with it is that they don't include the very best tires in it, only mediocre tires. For example, in all-seasons, they don't include the Kumho Ecsta ASX, Pirelli PZero Nero M+S, or Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS, and in winter tires, they don't include what Tire Rack calls the "studless" winter tires like the Bridgestone Blizzak WS50 or the Michelin X-Ice.

CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:31 PM 11/16/2006

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hardly think its any more of a travesty than the non scientific rating system tirerack uses to market their site.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're referring to their test results, they are as scientific as anything you can possibly devise. And they're the most comprehensive, objective set of measurements of tire performance you can find anywhere.

If you're referring to their survey results, those are problematic because of the inherent bias in the survey responders.

Sounds like you've got a bug up your butt about the Tire Rack. I think they do a good job at providing tire information, far better than anyone else. (But I still like to buy my tires wherever they're cheapest - which is sometimes, but not always, the Tire Rack.)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So within the CR list, where would you rate the three all seasons you mentioned?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Better than any of the ones on their list. And it's no wonder - Consumer Reports did not test the top performing all-season from the various manufacturers. For example, they tested the Michelin Pilot HX and Pilot Exalto A/S, instead of the Pilot Sport A/S. They tested the Yokohama Avid H4 instead of the ADVAN S.4. or AVS dB S2. And so on for the other manufacturers, right down the line. If they were testing budget tires, maybe those would be appropriate. But you would think that when they're testing "performance" all-season and winter tires, they would be testing the ones with the best... er... performance, no?

CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:31 PM 11/16/2006

nsxtasy

Like I said, you sure do seem to have a personal grudge against the Tire Rack that biases your posts...

vtecsi00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like I said, you sure do seem to have a personal grudge against the Tire Rack that biases your posts...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree with you that he doesn't like the mothod that the rack uses verse's CR...Iknow we have had our own arguments in the past but CR is a joke to me because they don't tell the people reading these results for example the dunlop d60 was one of there best test result tires but failed to mention that the tires mold had a defect when the tire got to 4 or 5/32nds.....or like the goodyear tripletread is a great riding tire and it does have very excellent traction for a touring tire, but it has ride issue, OOR issues, and that it is much heavier of a tire taht it affects your gas mileage....

CardDealer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like I said, you sure do seem to have a personal grudge against the Tire Rack that biases your posts...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have as much of a grudge against them as you have personal gain from promoting them.

CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:31 PM 11/16/2006

vtecsi00

problem with survey's is that most of the time it's not your car that has those tire's on them.....it's people driving a different car then what you drive and there driving habits are not going to be like your driving habits...when i drive my si i drive it hard 75% of the time...when i amdriving my third car i drive it like a normal human being to a degree....si it is hard to rely off someone's opinion when the have no real knowledge of tires....

CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:31 PM 11/16/2006

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have as much of a grudge against them as you have personal gain from promoting them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't promote the Tire Rack, let alone get personal gain from their sales (which should be obvious from the fact that I quote prices from various dealers and point out whenever someone has the best price). But I'll give you two points for trying to throw out a red herring to try to distract everyone from your obvious bias against them by making a statement that is totally abstruse. In political terms, it makes for a great sound bite. You should be in politics (if you're not already), a great field for people who like to gloss over their biases and prejudices.

IMHO, the best way to evaluate tires is to test them, blind (the drivers don't know which is which), on the same cars, on the same track, on the same day, using drivers who do this for a living. And if you're testing winter tires, go rent out an ice rink to do testing in the slippery stuff. And take objective measurements, in addition to subjective opinions. That's how the Tire Rack tests tires, and how Car and Driver tested them in their recent article.

CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:31 PM 11/16/2006

vtecsi00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by schlit &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess the only way to get what you want is to try out every tire out there. Especially since you have a modified SI.
good discussion none the less</TD></TR></TABLE>


i go through tires in a one year span because of the way i drive but i have the benefit's of being able to...and i do test out new tires and give my feedbacks to other people from the way i drive my car so that other consumer's who drive there car hard will know what to expect...i have had many diferent tires from yoko's v4, avs es100, parada spec 1, goodyear tripletread, hankook rs2, falken 215 and 615, bfg g-force sport,michelin x-ice, yoko f720, bfg traction t/a, avid trz and pirelli p3000. all within a 7 year span between three vehicle's and have had some good experience's and bad experience's with these tire's....and i try somethin new everytime....the best tire's that i have had fun with have been the parada's and the falken 215's....i curently run the hankook rs2 but haven't been able to really see how good there are yet with the si being on down time....i do like the comparison's from all three sites that are available but not as much from CR as i do from the rack when it come's to actual testing thou

Doespike

I've always enjoyed CR articles, but I haven't read this one yet.
FWIW I've had Michelin Pilot Exalto AS on my 01 Integra for the past year, but I'm going back to BF Goodrich Traction TAs this week. The Michelins are very good in the snow here in Buffalo, but weren't noticably better, or worse, than the BFGs. However the BFGs had a stiffer, straighter sidewall which made for better dry cornering without the sloppy feel. And for around $20 a tire more at my local tire shop, the Michelins were definitely not worth it IMHO.

vtecsi00

couldn't agree more that the bfg traction t/a are better than the some of the michelin's

CardDealer

Modified by CardDealer at 5:33 PM 11/16/2006

nsxtasy

Among all-seasons, the Kumho Ecsta ASX, Pirelli PZero Nero M+S, and Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS are MUCH better than any of those. And the ASX is bargain priced, too.

vtecsi00

would agree with you nsxtasy if the consumer was looking for a performance tire with an all season capability.....but if the consumer just wanted a good all season tire with out performance then that is the tire

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecsi00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would agree with you nsxtasy if the consumer was looking for a performance tire with an all season capability.....but if the consumer just wanted a good all season tire with out performance then that is the tire</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would agree with you if there were some other advantage to those other tires. But there isn't. For example, you can do better in both price AND performance with the Kumho Ecsta ASX. Look at prices for the 205/55-15 size:

Kumho Ecsta ASX $53 after rebate
Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S $111
BFG Traction T/A $81

MUCH better performance at a MUCH lower price makes it a no-brainer, even for those who care more about price than performance.

Doespike

IMHO, I believe the advantage of the BFG Tractions would be deep snow and packed snow grip, which is my primary concern rather than year-round performance. I'm hoping to pick up a set of wheels in the spring and putting Kumho Ecsta SPTs on them(courtesy of your comments about SPTs ) for the snowless 6-8 months of the year.

I did look at the ASXs but I was not impressed at all with the tread pattern. Those thin grooves and angled slits would have much more difficulty getting going from a dead stop. The Tractions have what I consider, an aggressive biting cleat tread. I never had a problem with wheel spin with my old set of Tractions, but I did have some with the Pilot Exaltos.

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doespike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMHO, I believe the advantage of the BFG Tractions would be deep snow and packed snow grip, which is my primary concern rather than year-round performance. I'm hoping to pick up a set of wheels in the spring and putting Kumho Ecsta SPTs on them(courtesy of your comments about SPTs ) for the snowless 6-8 months of the year.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Given your concern, you're probably better off getting a set of true winter tires than all-seasons, for winter use on your other wheels. And, in particular, the "studless" winter tires (as the Tire Rack calls them), rather than the "performance winter" tires.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Doespike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did look at the ASXs but I was not impressed at all with the tread pattern.</TD></TR></TABLE>

One thing I've learned from experience, is that you can't always tell how well a tire does based on just looking at its tread pattern. There are plenty of examples of tires with similar tread patterns and drastically different performance, and tires with tread patterns that look like they won't do well when in fact they do great (or vice versa).

Furthermore, sometimes different tire makers take different approaches and achieve similar objectives. A great example is in those "studless" winter tires; the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 uses a micropore outer compound which absorbs moisture like a sponge, whereas the Michelin X-Ice uses tire siping to achieve better grip. Two different approaches, yet both provide excellent grip on ice.

If you decide to buy another set of all-seasons, you really should give the Kumho ASX a try. They really are better than those other tires, and are as good as the best all-seasons on the market (most of which are considerably more expensive than the ASX).

(However, you can do better still by getting separate summer tires and winter tires. I'm sure you'll enjoy the SPT when you get them.)