codenamezero

UPDATE:
alright i am going to rent this welder, is it a good starter to do the spot welds? whats the initial setting i should try first?




OLD STUFF:
I'm new, i never welded
but i've done my DC2 JDM conversion and now at the point of welding the JDM rad support back onto my USDM frame...

I'm currently asking friends to ask their friends to lend me a welder lol, MIG or TIG...
so i'm wondering what do i need to do before spot welding beside cleaning the metal real good?

the JDM rad support is about 1.5mm thick, and the frame is about 2mm to 2.5mm thick... should i weld from the frame side or from the rad side?

what heat range should i start it? i still have the old USDM rad support, i suppose i can try some test weld on it...

what happen if some oil is on it?
what happen if some rust is on it?
what happen if some paint is on it?


Modified by codenamezero at 4:18 AM 1/13/2007

dude_123

Don't use TIG if you have no welding experience. Use a MIG and just tack to rad support into position. If it has oil on it clean it with lacquer thinner and grind off the paint and rust with wire brush or grinder.

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dude_123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't use TIG if you have no welding experience. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thinking the same thing.

Just remember 3 things, clean, clean, and clean some more.

scansel912

I'm actually about to begin the same process the OP is going through. I am trying to replace my old damaged EG core support with one from a junkyard.

What are the proper steps in cleaning the area to be welded? Also, is the metal too thin to be arc-welded and would you guys recommend it.

RCautoworks

I don't recommend arc ( stick ) welding anything on a car. To clean, grind down surface to bare metel, wipe with acetone and then weld.

scansel912

Why wouldn't you recommend arc welding, especially on something like the frame rails?

Answer might be obvious but I'm a noob.

codenamezero

i'm afraid it would "go through" the metal sheet and make a hole.

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scansel912 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why wouldn't you recommend arc welding, especially on something like the frame rails?

Answer might be obvious but I'm a noob.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Arc welding is not really for this industry, yes it can be done, but I myself would never do it. If you are welding on frame rails, you should have an option to either mig or even tig weld. Your average person does not start welding on frame rails. Arc welding is more for people that weld beams on structures, or pipe welders.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by codenamezero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm afraid it would "go through" the metal sheet and make a hole.</TD></TR></TABLE>

With a mig, you would just be spot welding basically.

scansel912

Alright makes sense. I ask because we have a really nice Lincoln Arc welder and then a shitty gasless (flux core) mig welder. I wasn't sure what would work better.

RCautoworks

Flux core would work better, I believe it actually can weld with lower amps then a mig, but not sure. If you are just doing things like this, flux is ok.

codenamezero

what setting should start with?

swappedcx

low.
You need to get a piece of scrap metal the same gauge and practice on it. This is the proper way to set up your machine, even if someone told you exactly what setting I would not trust it. If your doing spot welds you should get the same gauge metal and weld a few beads and drill a few holes and weld some spot welds with it. You should then take the metal and destructively test it. For a spot weld stick it in a vise and beat it until you get the 2 pieces to separate. The top piece (with the hole you drilled and filled with the weld) should stay intact, and the bottom piece should tear out and come off with the top piece. Its hard to explain, but this is the way we were taught in welding class for auto collision.

Also I forget what it is (either brass or copper...i think its copper but not sure) that if you do burn through you can put a copper plate behind the weld as a backer to fill in the spot weld.

JShull

I actually have the same welder and welded a core support on my EG a little while back.

I used the .035 flux wire that came with it and had it set it on the same temp you have it (B) and on the same speed it looks like (2) although I think I may have had it set at 3.

It took longer for me to make everything staight with no gaps than it did to actually weld it up. I'm a novice too and it scared me to death to do something like that.

Before you weld it on make sure to put the bumper support on your bumper lights and fenders to make sure that everything lines up. if it does remorve the bumper cover, fenders and lights so that it is eaisier to get to where you need to weld. Also, I would highly suggest you prep the metal so that you get good starts so it doesn't become messy with slag and all that good stuff.

If you are located in/around Jax, FL I'd be glad to drive over and let you use my welder.

I just now bought a camera so I don't have any pics to show of the whole process I went through.

Good luck with it.

codenamezero

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by swappedcx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">low.
You need to get a piece of scrap metal the same gauge and practice on it. This is the proper way to set up your machine, even if someone told you exactly what setting I would not trust it. If your doing spot welds you should get the same gauge metal and weld a few beads and drill a few holes and weld some spot welds with it. You should then take the metal and destructively test it. For a spot weld stick it in a vise and beat it until you get the 2 pieces to separate. The top piece (with the hole you drilled and filled with the weld) should stay intact, and the bottom piece should tear out and come off with the top piece. Its hard to explain, but this is the way we were taught in welding class for auto collision.

Also I forget what it is (either brass or copper...i think its copper but not sure) that if you do burn through you can put a copper plate behind the weld as a backer to fill in the spot weld.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for the input, so if i understand correctly..
- do i have to drill through one of the metal for spot weld? (because originally i thought it would weld through/melt the 2 pieces of metal together)

- and you mean once i spot weld the 2 pieces together, i should beat the crap out to separate them right? that will test the strength of the spot welds? basically, the back piece should tear when i try to separate them.

- let me know if its copper or brass lol, i will use it as backer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JShull &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I actually have the same welder and welded a core support on my EG a little while back.

I used the .035 flux wire that came with it and had it set it on the same temp you have it (B) and on the same speed it looks like (2) although I think I may have had it set at 3.

It took longer for me to make everything staight with no gaps than it did to actually weld it up. I'm a novice too and it scared me to death to do something like that.

Before you weld it on make sure to put the bumper support on your bumper lights and fenders to make sure that everything lines up. if it does remorve the bumper cover, fenders and lights so that it is eaisier to get to where you need to weld. Also, I would highly suggest you prep the metal so that you get good starts so it doesn't become messy with slag and all that good stuff.

If you are located in/around Jax, FL I'd be glad to drive over and let you use my welder.

I just now bought a camera so I don't have any pics to show of the whole process I went through.

Good luck with it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea thanks for the input, i will take off the JDM rad support again, and get a SS wire wheel to clear the base metal (both side) with it, then spray it with brake cleaner. you think that will do?


Modified by codenamezero at 8:47 AM 1/13/2007

JShull

don't use brake cleaner. use acetone like 90blackcrx suggested.

swappedcx

Ok, heres what I was talking about. This is how I was taught, and some may beg to differ. To make a plug weld (replaces factory spot welds) you need a top plate with a hole and a bottom backer plate. The plug weld hole is typically 1/4-3/8'' diameter. There are 2 basic ways you can fill them...start from the outside and swirl in a circle into the middle, or go middle out. I prefer outside in. Same goes for welding 3 pieces of metal together, the bottom plate has no hole, the middle plate has a hole, and the top has a larger hole.


Here is how we tested ours. Of course the red dot is your plug weld. The grey plat is the top plate with the hole in it, and the white is the backer. put either end in a vice, and hit the opposing plate on the skinny side to "twist" the plate apart with a hammer. The torque will make the plate pull apart, but the backer is the one you want to rip. If the plug weld remains on the backer and the top part rips you know you need to practice a little more.


Again, this is how i was taught so im just giving my opinion. But this way if you actually destructively test it, you know if a accident ever would happen (god forbid) your front end wont fall off.

JShull

Good to know.

I had to teach myself. I wish I would have had advice like that when I did mine.