heres the plans..............

LS/Vtec Build Up

- LS Block
- All New VTEC Bearings
- Golden Eagle Oil Girdle
- Balance Crank With Lightened Flywheel
- Type R Oil Pump
- ARP Main Bolts
- Shotpeened LS rods
- ARP 8mm Rod Bolts
- B16 Pistons
- Block Guard
- Any VTEC Water Pump
- New VTEC Timing Belt
- Golden Eagle LS/Vtec Conversion Kit
- B16 Head
- Mild Port and Polish
- Stainless Valves
- Titanium Retainers
- JDM ITR Header
- 2.25” Exhaust
- ITR Dual Valve Springs
- CTR/ITR Intake Cam
- ITR Intake Manifold
- All Ports Gasket Matched
- 68mm Throttle Body
- Type R Fuel Pump
- FPR
- Fuel Rail
- 310cc Injectors
- CAI
- Chipped P28 ECU
- B16 Tranny w/LSD

And A Little Tuning.

is it missing anything? let me know how it sounds.


Modified by Wopsicle69 at 2:43 PM 1/13/2005

 

You probably don't need the fuel rail, injectors and fuel pump, but they can't hurt. And the Type R oil pump is no different than the LS oil pump, if it changes anything. The "Any header" could be argued with.

 

anybody else have any opinions. how much will something like this cost....roughly?

 

get some headstuds to prevent head lifting...and also a vtec oil pump is different than a ls

 

i thought 99+ b series oil pump are the same?

 

if your gonna rev to 9 and up...you should get a GSR water pump because the gsr have less teeth then the ls, to slow down the water, if it has too many teeth like the LS, it would spin so fast that the water would not be able to get through

 

Is this an LS bottom end? what crank are you using? If you are using an Ls crank use Ls bearings. If you are using a GS-R crank the use the vtec bearings. It all depends what crank you are using.

 

- LS Block
- All New VTEC Bearings - VTEC bearings only if using VTEC crank
- Golden Eagle Oil Girdle
- Balance Crank With Lightened Flywheel - Balanced from the factory, why balance again? Are you shaving it?
- Type R Oil Pump - Same as LS/GSR/B16, why spend extra money?
- ARP Main Bolts - Get some ARP head studs too.
- Shotpeened LS rods
- ARP 8mm Rod Bolts
- B16 Pistons
- Block Guard - Good luck.
- Any VTEC Water Pump - LS/GSR/B16 will all work.
- New VTEC Timing Belt - Use timing belt that matches waterpump (ex: ls pump + ls belt)
- Golden Eagle LS/Vtec Conversion Kit - Unneccessary, buy an oil line and you're set.
- B16 Head
- Mild Port and Polish*
- Stainless Valves
- Titanium Retainers
- JDM ITR Header - You looking for power or bandwagon recognition?
- 2.25” Exhaust
- ITR Dual Valve Springs- B16 intakes are dual, just buy inner springs for the exhaust side.
- CTR/ITR Intake Cam - What about exhaust?
- ITR Intake Manifold
- All Ports Gasket Matched* - isn't this the same as PnP?
- 68mm Throttle Body
- Type R Fuel Pump
- FPR
- Fuel Rail
- 310cc Injectors
- CAI
- Chipped P28 ECU
- B16 Tranny w/LSD

Buy a complete engine gasket set

 

Looks like you're missing sleeves to me.

Get rid of the block guard. Presuming you may be going FI in the future (why else consider a block guard), might as well sleeve it now.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slomofo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- LS Block
- All New VTEC Bearings
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Get proper bearings for crank/rod journal combination you're using.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- Balance Crank With Lightened Flywheel
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Balancing the crank is not worth it at all. Flywheel is worth it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- Type R Oil Pump
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nothing specifically different about the R pump. If anything get a pro drive gear.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- ARP Main Bolts
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Only if going FI.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- Shotpeened LS rods
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't waste my time spending money shotpeening rods that will just be crap for FI in the long run.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- ARP 8mm Rod Bolts
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Only if going FI. Stock ones are perfectly fine for NA.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- B16 Pistons
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're going NA look elsewhere.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- Block Guard - Good luck.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sleeve it. Do it right.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- Any VTEC Water Pump
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm beginning to see a trend here with this "VTEC" thing.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- B16 Head
</TD></TR></TABLE>

P72 is a better head.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- JDM ITR Header
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Much better choices out there.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- 2.25” Exhaust
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're going FI this is too small.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- CTR/ITR Intake Cam
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you're going FI - might want to re-evaluate.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- ITR Intake Manifold
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unnecessary and P72 is a better head choice anyways (which this is incompatible with).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
310cc Injectors
</TD></TR></TABLE>

If going FI you might want to rethink this.

 

P72 - FI, lower compression.
PR3 - N/A, high compression.

He didn't specify that he's going turbo, so let's assume it's all motor since he chose the B16 head, JDM header, and short gear tranny.

 

I disagree with clayne saying not to get ARP rod bolts. How many people that are giving advice here have actually brought an LS to 8k because it was making power that high?

*raises hand*


The rod bolts stretched under stress and allowed a bearing to get wonky. Get the ARP's, its 40 bucks for insurance.

Also, B16 pistons are not for NA in an LS/VTEC? What are you talking about? That combo yields 11.3:1 with a B16 head- great for all motor.

Also, why are you telling him the GSR head is better. I agree, that's why Im running one, but do you have any evidence to back up your claim? It sounds like you're just spouting off hear-say.

Also, balancing the crank is up to him. Non-VTEC cranks are not zero balanced from the factory as are all VTEC cranks.


Also, slomofo, the P72 head would yield higher compression due to its smaller CC's and would - for that and a few other reasons - be better for high compression motors. Were you referring to the head or the pistons?

 

slomofo:

P72 head is higher compression than a PR3 head casing on the same block.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The rod bolts stretched under stress and allowed a bearing to get wonky. Get the ARP's, its 40 bucks for insurance.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's still a hack.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, B16 pistons are not for NA in an LS/VTEC? What are you talking about? That combo yields 11.3:1 with a B16 head- great for all motor.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct. I meant "if going FI, you should look elsewhere."

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, why are you telling him the GSR head is better. I agree, that's why Im running one, but do you have any evidence to back up your claim? It sounds like
you're just spouting off hear-say.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

P72 CC design has been debated endlessly already. If anyone is going off of hear-say it's the original poster with the "VTEC" obsession manifested by various Type R and B16A parts desired.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, balancing the crank is up to him. Non-VTEC cranks are not zero balanced from the factory as are all VTEC cranks.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay, and your evidence to back THIS one up?

Anyways.. we don't even know what this guy is shooting for...

Sounds to me like some ITR/b16a junkie got into his head...

Wopsicle69, NA or FI as the final goal?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clayne &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's still a hack.

Awesome reasoning. So you're telling me VTEC engines have bigger rod bolts for no good reason? And that the smaller bolts can hold a bigger stroke at higher than intended RPM forever? And that the fact that the only other 1.8L crank has bigger bolts AND a girdle is just BS?


You are correct. I meant "if going FI, you should look elsewhere."

I thought that's what you meant

P72 CC design has been debated endlessly already. If anyone is going off of hear-say it's the original poster with the "VTEC" obsession manifested by various Type R and B16A parts desired.

The correct answer here would be "quench area that is better suited to higher compression"

Okay, and your evidence to back THIS one up?

The numerous articles about it published in numerous tech mags and the fact that I was standing behind my builder when he tried to balance my B16 crank...Its not 100% perfect (not high speed balanced), but its damn good.

Anyways.. we don't even know what this guy is shooting for...

Sounds to me like some ITR/b16a junkie got into his head...

Agreed. None of this matters if this is just a "what if" post.

Wopsicle69, NA or FI as the final goal?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notstock93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[/QUOTE]
Awesome reasoning. So you're telling me VTEC engines have bigger rod bolts for no good reason? And that the smaller bolts can hold a bigger stroke at higher than intended RPM forever? And that the fact that the only other 1.8L crank has bigger bolts AND a girdle is just BS?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. Basically what I was pointing towards were aftermarket rods - period.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clayne &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Awesome reasoning. So you're telling me VTEC engines have bigger rod bolts for no good reason? And that the smaller bolts can hold a bigger stroke at higher than intended RPM forever? And that the fact that the only other 1.8L crank has bigger bolts AND a girdle is just BS?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No. Basically what I was pointing towards were aftermarket rods - period.
[/QUOTE]

Guess what rod bolts aftermarket rods use.

 

Dude. You're talking down to the wrong guy. Been dealing with Hondas for over 10 years now and am well aware that the aftermarket mfg's tend to use ARP.

To clarify once again, since you seem to be shooting for a pedantic attempt at nitpicking - I was recommending to ice the LS rods altogether and not bother trying to "upgrade" them with better fasteners.

I'm also operating off the assumption that this guy will be going towards FI. Without his clarification it doesn't mean jack.

In fact, it really doesn't mean jack anyways - this is his car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clayne &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dude. You're talking down to the wrong guy. Been dealing with Honda's for over 10 years now and am well aware that the aftermarket mfg's tend to use ARP.

To clarify once again, since you seem to be shooting for a pedantic attempt at nitpicking - I was recommending to ice the LS rods altogether and not bother trying to "upgrade" them with better fasteners.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ill talk down to anyone that gives someone a one word answer without any sort of reasoning specified (unless it only calls for a one word answer). What would you have me do? Too many people confuse giving advice with giving opinion and Im not going to sit idly and let it slide. I don't care if you've been tuning and building Honda's for 20 years, that's not how to help people. End of discussion.

Don't get so pissy. Instead of saying "I MEANT to imply he should get aftermarket rods" say, "Get aftermarket rods" and not "ARP rod bolts are a hack".

You seem like a pretty intelligent guy, so lets not try and fool one another with reversible intentions and implications. Im an ******* (its true), and your vague and opinionated. Now we can both stop arguing.

 

I'l drink to that!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clayne &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'l drink to that!</TD></TR></TABLE>

deal.