Upgrading to a more robust starter?
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B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Upgrading to a more robust starter?
I don't know where starters are placed on manual transmission vehicles but from my experience with automatics, it's placed near the flywheel. When the starter is turned on, the flywheel spins which moves the motor and then allows firing of the cylinders. I have a few questions.
First off, since (assuming I'm right) the starter sits on the flywheel and spins it when it's running, once the engine is running, the flywheel is moving on its own, so therefore it's spinning the starter motor, correct? If this is true, does this mean the starter motor is outputting electricity itself?
Secondly I wanted to know if it would be possible to relocate the starter motor to somewhere in front of the engine, possibly as a drive belt.
Thirdly I wanted to know if it would be possible in the event of a relocated starter motor to the front, to use the starter motor to charge the battery and just forgo the alternator.
And finally, I wanted to know if none of the above were possible, or were possible only with great expensive, expertise and fabrication, then would it be possible to replace the starter motor near the flywheel with one that didn't risk damaging it from prolong starting and or multiple use.
First off, since (assuming I'm right) the starter sits on the flywheel and spins it when it's running, once the engine is running, the flywheel is moving on its own, so therefore it's spinning the starter motor, correct? If this is true, does this mean the starter motor is outputting electricity itself?
Secondly I wanted to know if it would be possible to relocate the starter motor to somewhere in front of the engine, possibly as a drive belt.
Thirdly I wanted to know if it would be possible in the event of a relocated starter motor to the front, to use the starter motor to charge the battery and just forgo the alternator.
And finally, I wanted to know if none of the above were possible, or were possible only with great expensive, expertise and fabrication, then would it be possible to replace the starter motor near the flywheel with one that didn't risk damaging it from prolong starting and or multiple use.
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From: West Kingston, RI
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (imzjustplayin)
I'm not sure what you're asking, but it seems like you don't understand the starter very well. It's just a little electric motor with a retractable wheel that spins the flywheel, pretty simple.
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From: West Kingston, RI
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (imzjustplayin)
I don't understand what else you are asking. I don't see a benefit to moving/or changing the design of the starter, or how you could use it to charge the battery (the alternator does a pretty good job of that).
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From: Austin, Tx, usa
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (imzjustplayin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know where starters are placed on manual transmission vehicles but from my experience with automatics, it's placed near the flywheel. When the starter is turned on, the flywheel spins which moves the motor and then allows firing of the cylinders. I have a few questions.
First off, since (assuming I'm right) the starter sits on the flywheel and spins it when it's running, once the engine is running, the flywheel is moving on its own, so therefore it's spinning the starter motor, correct? If this is true, does this mean the starter motor is outputting electricity itself?
Secondly I wanted to know if it would be possible to relocate the starter motor to somewhere in front of the engine, possibly as a drive belt.
Thirdly I wanted to know if it would be possible in the event of a relocated starter motor to the front, to use the starter motor to charge the battery and just forgo the alternator.
And finally, I wanted to know if none of the above were possible, or were possible only with great expensive, expertise and fabrication, then would it be possible to replace the starter motor near the flywheel with one that didn't risk damaging it from prolong starting and or multiple use.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you sir , fail.
im sorry but that is the most pointless thing i have ever heard come out of someones fingers. The starter is for ......... starting the car!!
they have changed the design of starters so that they last a lot longer. we very very rarely ever have to change out starters on 96 and up models. so there is no point in upgrading something that does its job quite well. As far as putting the starter on the acc. belt system it would just spin and squeal, it requires to much torque to start an engine. trust me the engineers have it right chief. read up on how a starter works on google.
First off, since (assuming I'm right) the starter sits on the flywheel and spins it when it's running, once the engine is running, the flywheel is moving on its own, so therefore it's spinning the starter motor, correct? If this is true, does this mean the starter motor is outputting electricity itself?
Secondly I wanted to know if it would be possible to relocate the starter motor to somewhere in front of the engine, possibly as a drive belt.
Thirdly I wanted to know if it would be possible in the event of a relocated starter motor to the front, to use the starter motor to charge the battery and just forgo the alternator.
And finally, I wanted to know if none of the above were possible, or were possible only with great expensive, expertise and fabrication, then would it be possible to replace the starter motor near the flywheel with one that didn't risk damaging it from prolong starting and or multiple use.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you sir , fail.
im sorry but that is the most pointless thing i have ever heard come out of someones fingers. The starter is for ......... starting the car!!
they have changed the design of starters so that they last a lot longer. we very very rarely ever have to change out starters on 96 and up models. so there is no point in upgrading something that does its job quite well. As far as putting the starter on the acc. belt system it would just spin and squeal, it requires to much torque to start an engine. trust me the engineers have it right chief. read up on how a starter works on google.
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (eg6sirll)
Oh like your post is any better? I couldn't understand half the **** you just posted and you have the audacity to say my post was pointless and I fail?
If I plan to use the starter much like it's used in a hybrid, then yes I think you should upgrade to a more robust one unless I want to constantly be replacing my starter. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6sirll »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as putting the starter on the acc. belt system it would just spin and squeal, it requires to much torque to start an engine. trust me the engineers have it right chief. read up on how a starter works on google.</TD></TR></TABLE> WHAT THE [freak] DOES THE STARTER DO THEN? DURRR A starter is an undersized, underpowered electric motor with a servo to move it near the flywheel and away from it, don't try and make it something more complicated than it is. There is a reason why you can only crank the motor for 30 seconds, it's because it's too underpowered for anything else but cranking.
BTW my idea isn't exactly stupid:
"While the need was fairly obvious — as early as 1899, Clyde J. Coleman applied for U.S. Patent 745,157 for an electric automobile self-starter — inventing one that actually worked waited until 1911 when Charles F. Kettering of Dayton Electric Laboratories (DELCO) invented and filed for U.S. Patent 1,150,523 for the first useful electric starter. The starters were first installed by Cadillac on production models in 1912. These starters also worked as generators once the engine was running, a concept that is now being revived in hybrid vehicles. The Model T relied on hand cranks until 1919; by 1920 most manufacturers included self-starters." -Wikipedia
Modified by imzjustplayin at 9:59 AM 7/1/2008
If I plan to use the starter much like it's used in a hybrid, then yes I think you should upgrade to a more robust one unless I want to constantly be replacing my starter. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg6sirll »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as putting the starter on the acc. belt system it would just spin and squeal, it requires to much torque to start an engine. trust me the engineers have it right chief. read up on how a starter works on google.</TD></TR></TABLE> WHAT THE [freak] DOES THE STARTER DO THEN? DURRR A starter is an undersized, underpowered electric motor with a servo to move it near the flywheel and away from it, don't try and make it something more complicated than it is. There is a reason why you can only crank the motor for 30 seconds, it's because it's too underpowered for anything else but cranking.
BTW my idea isn't exactly stupid:
"While the need was fairly obvious — as early as 1899, Clyde J. Coleman applied for U.S. Patent 745,157 for an electric automobile self-starter — inventing one that actually worked waited until 1911 when Charles F. Kettering of Dayton Electric Laboratories (DELCO) invented and filed for U.S. Patent 1,150,523 for the first useful electric starter. The starters were first installed by Cadillac on production models in 1912. These starters also worked as generators once the engine was running, a concept that is now being revived in hybrid vehicles. The Model T relied on hand cranks until 1919; by 1920 most manufacturers included self-starters." -Wikipedia
Modified by imzjustplayin at 9:59 AM 7/1/2008
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Toronto, Canada
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (imzjustplayin)
the starter's job is to crank the engine over. and it only gets the flywheel spinning at the most 250-300rpm. it's not "on the firewall" it's bolted to the transmission bellhousing. in the past 80+ years the automobile had electric starters not once have i seen or heard of one bolted to the firewall??
the sprocket on the starter retracts when it's not engaged. the flywheel is not constantly rotating against the starter like you are thinking......if you wanna hear what it sounds like to have the flywheel constantly spin the starter motor keep holding the key to crank position while the engine fires up...
what you are trying to do makes no sense and would be physically and economically impossible.....if you are trying to power the car using a starter motor you might as well sell the car and buy a true hybrid.
the sprocket on the starter retracts when it's not engaged. the flywheel is not constantly rotating against the starter like you are thinking......if you wanna hear what it sounds like to have the flywheel constantly spin the starter motor keep holding the key to crank position while the engine fires up...
what you are trying to do makes no sense and would be physically and economically impossible.....if you are trying to power the car using a starter motor you might as well sell the car and buy a true hybrid.
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Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (non-VTEC)
Who the [freak] said it was on firewall? I tried to search for firewall and your post is the only one that mentions it. Anyhow who said I'd power the car with the starter motor? You seem to lack comprehension skills.
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From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (imzjustplayin)
Blah Blah Blah, gibberish crap, copy & paste century old drivel...... Why?
What do you plan to gain from this front mount actuated robust starter & generator?
What do you plan to gain from this front mount actuated robust starter & generator?
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Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Toronto, Canada
Re: Upgrading to a more robust starter? (imzjustplayin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who the [freak] said it was on firewall? I tried to search for firewall and your post is the only one that mentions it. Anyhow who said I'd power the car with the starter motor? You seem to lack comprehension skills.</TD></TR></TABLE>
your right.......my bad.......since your original post madkes absolutly no sense and it obviously somthing a grade 2 kid would think of it confused me....sorry for blurting out nonsense.....oh wait........thats what you did.
your right.......my bad.......since your original post madkes absolutly no sense and it obviously somthing a grade 2 kid would think of it confused me....sorry for blurting out nonsense.....oh wait........thats what you did.
Thread Starter
B*a*n*n*e*d
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From: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: (DOHCter)
I just don't want my starter motor dying on me because of me abusing it. Yes I would like to use the starter like a little electric motor, something that would help move me in Stop and Go traffic. I just turn on a switch and the electric motor moves me forward ever so slowly. So I don't see what would be wrong with getting a super strong starter motor and or just motor that is capable of moving the vehicle and starting it as well.
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From: East Coast 506, Canada
Re: (imzjustplayin)
If that's your reasoning for this type of creation I would look into picking up a gasoline-electric hybrid like the Honda Insight. It already has a big electric starter that is used to drive the car in stop and go traffic. then it has a small but very efficient gasoline engine for highway driving.
Your thinking is in the right place for a hybrid but there is a lot more to it than just getting a larger electric starter/motor. You would need a system to switch from the gas powered engine to your starter motor. A special ECU would also be an asset. There are more things that you would have to look at as well. Take a look at how an Insight works and you will see your starter/electric motor at work. If you do some more research you may find a way to bolt a super starter to a regular gas engine and instantly convert it into a hybrid
for thinking outside the box.
Your thinking is in the right place for a hybrid but there is a lot more to it than just getting a larger electric starter/motor. You would need a system to switch from the gas powered engine to your starter motor. A special ECU would also be an asset. There are more things that you would have to look at as well. Take a look at how an Insight works and you will see your starter/electric motor at work. If you do some more research you may find a way to bolt a super starter to a regular gas engine and instantly convert it into a hybrid
for thinking outside the box.
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From: Toronto, Canada
Re: (imzjustplayin)
trying to move the car using the starter is pretty dumb. if you are that worried about gas milage then you really should buy a hybrid car.
if you want a stronger starter try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW
no matter what you do you will fry the starter eventually doing what you are trying to do.
good luck
if you want a stronger starter try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW
no matter what you do you will fry the starter eventually doing what you are trying to do.
good luck
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From: Austin, Tx, usa
Re: (imzjustplayin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by imzjustplayin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just don't want my starter motor dying on me because of me abusing it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i try not to abuse my wiper motor when it rains so that it doesnt go out on me.
if your trying to get better gas mileage here is a website that will help you
http://www.gassavers.org
there is a guy with a 92 hatch getting 70+ mpg.
the trick to getting good gas mileage is not a hybrid car imo, they are too heavy.
the new civic hybrid epa gas mileage is 42. the 1992 civic vx hatch got 52.
if i were trying to get gnarly gas mileage i would use a 1.5l engine , take as much weight out of the car , and make it have a low drag coefficient, put like those dish hubcaps they use on land speed cars and a belly pan. i think hybrid technology as of right now is not up to par.
Modified by eg6sirll at 7:24 AM 7/2/2008
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i try not to abuse my wiper motor when it rains so that it doesnt go out on me.
if your trying to get better gas mileage here is a website that will help you
http://www.gassavers.org
there is a guy with a 92 hatch getting 70+ mpg.
the trick to getting good gas mileage is not a hybrid car imo, they are too heavy.
the new civic hybrid epa gas mileage is 42. the 1992 civic vx hatch got 52.
if i were trying to get gnarly gas mileage i would use a 1.5l engine , take as much weight out of the car , and make it have a low drag coefficient, put like those dish hubcaps they use on land speed cars and a belly pan. i think hybrid technology as of right now is not up to par.
Modified by eg6sirll at 7:24 AM 7/2/2008
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