And what does the VAFC have to do with rod bearings? Can you explain the process in which the VAFC ends up screwing up rod bearings? I'd really like to know...no really, I do!

But, my opinion about the VAFC from what I know of it at this point in time:
It only controls fuel settings... what's the difference between adjusting fuel with a Hondata and a VAFC aside from better resolution with the Hondata? It's all in how you use the product IMO. If you know how to use it, it will make power for you...unless your car is already in a "PERFECT" state of tune already with your factory ECU...which I highly doubt.

 

Wow.. I see ignorance is still alive and well.

 

ok there is some real debate about vafc... as far as a cheap tuning device it's better that nothing... But it has no real adjustablity... It doesn't connect to each injector, to adjust duty cycle... It only connects to a the A/F signal wire. I have heard problems with Vafc's prematurely killing engine rod bearings, when settings are incorrect, and this was the answer that I recieved personally from Apexi, and have expericed this first hand. I would say if you can get someone that know how to tune it then great... But if you are going to spend 300 on the afc and then say 200 to tune it... Why not just get hondata s100.. Jeff will install it and tune it for just under 600. At that point the vafc isn't worth 500 tuned... because for 100 you can get full adjustablity on a dyno and you don't have some POS piggy back computer velcroed to you're dash...

just my 2 cents

Peace
And to anyone using a vafc and an fmu to run a 400+ turbo car, i'm sorry you are just plain stupid, if you want the car to last more than 2 months get a real tuning device... The one thing I cannot stand is someone that will build a bad *** motor that has soo much potential, then run it off a piggy back system??? just doesn't make sense.




[Modified by NirSpec1, 10:37 AM 3/16/2003]

 

and the idiot of the year award goes too.....

 

This is the best thread ever!

 

****, thats a good point. I should have gone hondata.

 

heard of inlinePro? call and ask them what they use to tune...FMU and Vafc all day long on 90% of their cars...like i said the guy i work with's 550+ HP 100 shot motor runs on FMU and AFC...oh and built by inlineP

 

do you want a hug? I was just giving another point of view... Why use a piggy back unit when you could have a fully programable engine system??? wait I know you are one of those rICe guys that like EL Glow **** stuck on you're dash... "you're bling bling pull me over.... " dumb ***....

I mean get over all this **** talking, rhd-da6 knows from more than one experience with customers in the past bringing cars to us that get fucked up using a vafc...
but we could start a poll about who would buy a vafc or who would spend an extra $100 and get hondata????

peace


[Modified by NirSpec1, 8:22 PM 3/16/2003]


[Modified by NirSpec1, 8:23 PM 3/16/2003]


[Modified by NirSpec1, 8:23 PM 3/16/2003]

 

no. you were making a value judgement:

VAFC works, or are you unable to see this?

you have to get Hondata tuned by someone, each time (unless you get stage 4 or whatever)

so in terms of the tuners who KNOW VAFC, they can make changes to their setup and in a little time in their garage can adapt the ECU to suit.

not like Hondata where you have to get a re-tune every time you change your injectors...

no set-up it truly static, and especially big turbo set-ups, why pay $100 for someone to tune, when you can go bling bling and have your VAFC settings changed in a moment or two?

that is just a more balanced point of view...

t..

 

I would agree that real time tuning could be done on the street with a vafc, and I yes it can have it's advantages, but at the same time with a vafc it will only adjust air fuel mixture... Where as you adjust the a/f mix you should be adjusting the timing to match mapping changes. And in all reality people that use hondata generally don't touch the settings, unless changes have been made, because there is no real reason to. The biggest prob with having something that you can adjust at anytime is most people will **** something up. And 90% of people arn't going to **** with setting due to the fact that they could mess something up. The real question with this post is to talk about pros and cons. I've used the vafc in many honda applications, and have used the standard AFC in mitsubishi's, yes does it work?? sure it works... But for people that use a car for everyday use as a street car, that is modified I would suggest the hondata unit over an VAFC. And yes you are right, it is a value judgment, when someone spends $10,000 on a built motor and turbo setup and then run a POS "always leaks" FMU and a VAFC, it just tends to seem stupid... and of course this is just my opinion
And if you want to use a VAFC with you're car thats great, you use what you think works just like everyone else, but by directly calling other people an idiot beacuse they don't trust or like a product, is out of line. rhd-da6 knows what he is talking about and has good experience with tuning honda motors.
Peace

 

You hold no weight with this comment. Yes, i will be going with hondata soon, but there are more fast as hell honda's running around nova with the fmu setup because they are tuned properly. I just made 440whp this weekend on my fmu setup. I beat the **** out of the car and it's held strong for 7 months now and it's daily driven. I understand what your saying about getting a proper setup and i agree, but tuning is key and you can do it with a fmu.

 

That is true, it is totally possible to tune with an FMU and VAFC, but it is limited. What I really can't understand is why you would spend the money to build the motor that can put out 440hp and still run it off of a piggy-back fuel setup. I don't think that it could be contested that Hondata is a much more powerful tuning tool, so why go with something second-rate on your fuel management (which is clearly the single most important system on any high HP motor) when you spend the money to do everything else properly?

I think that the point that Nirspec1 and RHD-DA6 are trying to make is that the VAFC and FMU setup is fine for a fairly stock streetable car. It does what it does well, but what it is capable of doing is limited. For a highly tuned and fully built setup, why compromise on your fuel and spark control setup? Especially when the difference between the two is such a small amount of $$$. For any built motor, especially anything FI, fuel is the most important part of the equation. I wouldn't want to skimp on anything that important.

 

"VAFC is a waste of money. you make no power with them. if you want your motor to last sell it"
dumass of the month right here

 

If vafc sucks who do tuners making 240+ to the wheels on an all motor setup use it? Its just about the same deal as hondata stg 1 except with a visual display. Crap, I shouldn't have said that, now they will say hondata is worthless too. =\

 

alright look this has turned into a "who's **** is bigger fight" I think that all we are trying to say is that we prefer hondata over using a vafc. Just due to the fact that you can adjust a complete mapping curve. instead of just fuel... Also other advantages of the hondata over a fmu and vafc is one you have one device, not two that can break or leak, you don't need check valves or missing link.

Vafc= $300 + fmu= $140 +missinglink= $60 + tuning = $150 = **$650**

hondata s100- chipped, installed and tuned = $575 (two weeks ago at IB)

please tell me that the Vafc is cheaper and better than hondata please!!! you guys need to look at things in more broad view not just what you think is great... I believe that if tuned correctly a VAFC WILL WORK, but for the money and a street car can you really tell me you rather have VAFC for $75 more than hondata?

Peace

 

I don't think it turned into that. You came in with a bold statement that the afc setup is worthless when it's not. I agree, i made the mistake of spending all the money on my motor and suspension and forgot about the fuel setup. I also would recommend to anyone building a motor to go with a standalone instead of the fmu route. I don't think anyone really disagreed that a standalone would be better, just that it's possible to make nice reliable power out of the fmu afc setup.

 

Exactly, Its not always about the power, Its about making sure the engine runs correctly. I learned that the hard way, this time around though tuning is first on my list.

 

If he knew what he was talking about he shouldn't of made such an absurd blanket statement. (See below) In addition to that, he wouldn't of ruined 4 sets of rod bearings. The rod bearings were "eaten" by improper settings, or maybe even perhaps bad tuning.

No one has said the VAFC is a better unit than the Hondata. Both however have their advantages and disadvantages. What if you live in an area that do not have a qualified tuner for Hondata? (Last time I checked, it was relatively few). Then you would go with VAFC.


[Modified by MEGA EK, 11:13 AM 3/18/2003]

 

Either way hondata vs. apexi VAFC with the vafc you cannot use bigger injectors or even control them. nirbob showed the pricing difference and what is the point of the vafc. yeah if you dont live near a hondata dealer why dont you become a hondata dealer. You sonund like you are the tuning GOD so why not????

And about the four blown motors on a vafc the tuning was done professionally and still had the problem.....

So quit being so ******* ignorant and realize that you made a mistake by buying a vafc and spent more money than you had to, in all reality there is no reason to have one unless you like the song it sings when you turn the car on or the dancing displays on your dash.


Give it up!

 

wow, I don't even think this is anything to argue over and your getting all bent out of shape about it. Me personally, i went with the afc setup because i only planned on going around 400whp untill i found out how much potential my car really has. So the afc was perfect. It was what i had on my previous setup and just switched over. Professionaly tuned huh, sounds like it wasn't or someone got alittle boost happy. Both setups are nice, the afc can be bought much cheaper now used. Everything doesn't have to be new. Infact, i'm selling my whole setup and buying the hondata because i'm planning on pushing more than the afc setup can handle. Nobody argued with you that the hondata isn't better, we argued that the afc was worthless. I'm sorry, but i'm sure i'm making more power and pushing a faster time than a street car that your driving right now. I don't want to argue which is better, i'm going with hondata, that should tell you what is better. But your screaming that we're ignorant when your the one whose seen 4 motors blow on the afc setup and none of ours have. Seems like your the ignorant one when it comes to tuning or keeping your/your friends cars in running condition. If the afc didn't work right, no one would buy it plain and simple. I will post tomorrow for any comments i'm sure you're going to make.

 

At least we both agree hondata is a better tuning device and I can leave it at that...

 

[quote]Either way hondata vs. apexi VAFC with the vafc you cannot use bigger injectors or even control them. nirbob showed the pricing difference and what is the point of the vafc. yeah if you dont live near a hondata dealer why dont you become a hondata dealer. You sonund like you are the tuning GOD so why not????[quote]

Look at my SN. I live in CA. I live right by a few Hondata dealers. In fact, a friend has one waiting for me. I never said I was a tuning god, but you're the one acting like an arrogant ****. The VAFC can make power, with the correct tuner, PERIOD.

Mistake by buying a VAFC? I don't have one. And if I were to purchase one, my cost would be below wholesale. No one's making a Hondata vs VAFC issue EXCEPT YOU AND YOUR FRIEND. You said the VAFC makes no power. That statement is simply incorrect. Did it make not make power on the dyno for you? (It sure does for others; maybe you don't know how to tune it) Stop spreading misinformation. Enough with the BS.


[Modified by MEGA EK, 5:54 PM 3/18/2003]

 

Oh my god this ignorance is hurting my head.

Since this is the 'tech' forum, I will confine my arguments to N/A. Go bitch in the FI forum if you want to talk about boost.

VAFC can definitely control larger injectors. Do you even know how it works? The VAFC doesn't care what size injectors you run. All it does is adjust your MAP signal to pull fuel. The VAFC has a lower practical limit of -40%, so any injector size larger than 40% is a real bad idea.

Hondata is not an option for most OBDII people. In nearly all states now, the inspection stations will pull codes as part of smog testing. An OBDI ECU will screw you there. This why the VAFC is a great option for daily drivers. Hondata has its place, and does give you more flexibility in overall tuning. But saying a VAFC sucks is some ignorant ****.

BTW, why don't we have another look at this math again for for OBDII folks :
VAFC - $300
1 hour dyno tuning @200/hr - $200
Total - $500

Hondata :
s100 system - $245
OBDI-II wiring harness - $250
OBDI ECU - $200
Hondata chip socket - $65
3 hours dyno tuning - @$200/hr - $600
Total - $1360

I think there is a bit of a difference there. Granted, there is more tunability with the Hondata, but is it 'worth it'? Not for a damn street car. If you are building an FI car, then it's Hondata all the way. If you are N/A and don't have the money for a *****-out ECU tune, then a VAFC is a damn good way to go.

Whomever destroyed bearings with a VAFC is ******* dumbass, plain and simple. You have to fubar the settings pretty serious to induce detonation. Even with hardcore detonation, I find it hard to imagine destroying bearings. Your ringlands and pistons will go before bearings do. I am not a tuner, but there are well respected tuners on this board that can tune a VAFC in less than an hour. It is just not that complicated a unit to operate.

 

someone lock this post!! it has turned to to such crap and i feel like i didn't help much

I was wondering who was running a fmu and Vafc that making 400+ hp and running stock injectors?? beacuse a honda ecu will not support an injector over 310cc's and without an seperate injector contoller how are you guys making 550 hp??
and who is paying $200/ hr for tuning???!!!

peace

 

This is not even about tuning a vafc. I may have made a strong comment about the vafc with no info backing my side but this thread is out of control. It has turned into a battle of the king ****. Either way hondata or the vafc could be used to tune a engine, but all i have to say is becareful and i hope you trust your tuner. a built motor is to expensive to just be thrown away. Sorry to get everyones panties in a twist, that is not what this forum is about...