Got a CTR steering wheel today but its off center a bit to the left. If i take it off and go one tooth to the right its off a bit more than it was on the left. Will the only way to fix this is to take it to an alignment shop or does anyone have some tips that will help?

99 Civic LX with non power steering rack.

 

You could try undoing the the two bolts that hold the steering shaft to the rack.

 

usually when its off by a tooth on the gear it's best to fix by adjusting the toe angle, which meens getting an alignment. There are some old school tricks you can do to adjust toe alignment at home with some string but it is goin to be hell to try on a dropped car.

 

I will give that steering joint a try and see if it will fix it. im guessing worst case scenario is getting an alignment done... again

 

I would just pay $35 bucks for a front end alignment. That way your wheel is straight and you know your alignment settings are correct as well.

 

You need to ensure that the steering wheel is put on correctly, if not the tie rod lengths will vary from side to side, which can increase bump steer and affect toe out on turns.

Yes it can be aligned to drive straight ahead the way it is, but the rack gear wont be centered, which will also result in less steering in one direction, and more in the other.

 

Thanks everyone. Yea the rods are good. Actually had a cx steering rack swapped in a few months back. Ended up taking it to an alignment shop. Tried the steering joint but that didn't work either. Atleast its straight now

 

In the future, you could center it yourself without string. If the wheel is slightly off CCW, center the steering wheel where you want it, and lengthen the left tie rod and shorten the right by the same number of turns. Your front toe is still the same but the wheel is centered

 

You didn't read my post above. Granted the toe will be correct steering straight ahead, but the toe will change in different amounts left to right when steered, causing stability problems. It will also steer more left than right, or vise versa because the tie rods are not physically the same length.

 

OP should've just drove on a road with more/less crown.. that'll make it straight.

the difference would be relatively negligible on a normal car. but it is something that should be taken into consideration. the more low the car has the more affect this will have on suspension angles.. but chances are if you're lowered that much you aren't getting alignments and you don't gaf about your suspension/tires/alignment/steering/handling anyway lol

 

How presumptuous of you. Actually, it was your post above that motivated me to chime in to begin with, so no one got discouraged by your generalizations.

What are you saying exactly? That you run your tie rods exactly the same length?

Yes it's true that the radius length of the tie rod has an influence on the bump steer curve. A tiny, negligible influence. Your post implies otherwise when you should know that the control arm geometry and compliance under load are what really define the curve, and vehicle ride height the starting place along it. Changing front static toe setting only translates that curve up and down the 'steer' axis.

The entire point of the rack/adjustable steer rod design (which you may have noticed has been utilized on 99% of passenger cars for like, 40 years now) is that you are able to vary the length of the rods side to side. That way you don't need to have perfectly straight frame, a perfectly centered rack, perfectly machined steering shaft splines.

Of course you try to center the steer wheel as close as possible before adjusting the tie rods. The O.P. layed it out for us to begin with "If i take it off and go one tooth to the right its off a bit more than it was on the left". He's obviously getting it as close as possible. And it's obviously still off by enough that it bugs him.. the proper way to adjust it is by changing tie rod length.. by design. Why are you trying to scare him away from that?

Do you really think anyone cares if their maximum steering angle is is 498º from center one way and 502º the other?

 

Yes, because there is a difference, its part of understanding the consequences of your actions. I use maximum steering angle to determine if there is a problem with the rack position, frame position, or if steering splines have been bent/deformed.

And who said anything about scaring him? All he has to do is take it in for an alignment, and provided the alignment was close before, center the toe and reposition the wheel, and then align the difference.

Bump steer is not a primary concern, ackermann angle is the primary concern, it will toe out differently from left to right. And the fact that it affects the steering makes it worth noting. So feel free to patronize, I do my job right, and I do it well.

 

I'm not understanding how this is any different from what I suggested. If he goes to a shop for an alignment they will end up doing the same thing, lengthening one rod and shortening another, assuming his toe is in spec to begin with and stays the same. How else would it be adjusted?

 

Obivously again you failed to read my post. I will put it out in baby steps

1: Put the car on the rack.
2: Set up aligner
3: center the toe (NOT ADJUST, DOH!)
4: ADJUST steering wheel position
5: ADJUST toe if its required
6: Verify steering angle left and right, reposition the rack, or repair as necessary.

Shortening the tie rod length overall will cause bump, of course the steering axis and the angles during travel affect bump steer, but its the tie rod length, and its angle/position relative to instant center that cause it.

 

Oh you're a nice guy, thanks.

Please elaborate on baby step 4, the part where you ADJUST steering wheel position. Do you mean to turn the wheel so it is straight and level?

 

No, one last time, you take the wheel off and center it, then bolt it back down. Adjusting toe does not adjust steering wheel position, it adjust the tie rod length. When toe equalizes during driving it will keep the steering straight ahead, regardless if it is toe in or toe out, it will always end centered because both wheels can pivot. Then, when the toe is equal from side to side, you can remove the steering wheel and place it center, and then perform a steering angle check.

 

Wrong, it's already been done, the guy centered his toe and repositioned his wheel, but it's still off a bit to the left. If he pulls it off and repositions it one spline clockwise, it's off by a little bit more but on the right.

How many splines you think are on a steering shaft? I'm guessing 45, if that. That would be 8 degrees per spline. So he can be off by as much as 4 degrees without recourse to get it better by repositioning the wheel.

So, which baby step do you go to from here?

 

baby step 6, reposition the rack or find what is causing the steering to be unequal from side to side.

 

The steering is equal side to side. Assume even that the tie rods after so many miles and alignments are still exactly the same length, not even one hex flat different, just the way you like it.

So by re-position the rack, I assume you mean to loosen the four bolts and use whatever clearance is in the bushing sleeves to correct for this new steering wheel? The new wheel which apparently has its splines cut a couple degrees differently from his previous steering wheel, since he has no complaints about it's straightness originally.

And then when you find there is not any or enough clearance in rack in the proper direction to correct for the difference with the new wheel? Which step do we go to now? Are we going to measure out the subframe and move that, too? What if it's already dead nuts?

You see what I'm getting at yet? You are preaching from some theoretical mindset that is impractical in the real world. Cars hit **** and arms get bent and bushings wear and steering wheels aren't all machined perfectly. You're not going to tell the customer he can't use this steering wheel or replace the rack or align the subframe or put the car on a frame rack just so that you can keep your tie rod lengths within 1mm of each other, that's ridiculous.

Even the bible explicitly allows for the adjustment I suggested. See attached.

Besides, if you were so serious about this perfectly equal length thing, your first baby step should be to remove the tie rods, check them for straightness, and reinstall them to perfectly equal lengths before you do anything else (all under the assumption that the taps and dies on the rod and end manufacturing machines started their threads at the exact same angle also). You may also want to add a step to check the steering angles/ackerman using the factory spec. (For DC Integra: outside wheel 36deg +- 2 deg with inside wheel @ 30.5 deg).

I don't disagree with you that it is ideal to have a perfectly centered rack and rod lengths as equal as possible. I'm all for good ackerman. But the amount of adjustment we are talking about here is so small that it's impractical to do anything else, that's my point. If he had no complaints before changing the wheel, he could make the adjustment himself to center the wheel with just a turn or two on each tie rod. Neither him, you nor I would ever notice the difference, and he's $40 richer.

 

You would replace the steering wheel, I would consider it defective.

Moving the subframe would move the steering inclination, and is not an adjustment that should be made unless inclination has moved from side to side. (IE subframe physically moved)

I don't preach from a theoretical mindset, every action has a consequence. My intent was to showcase the effects because the OP wanted to know if there is any other way to fix it. The last thing I would ever want to do, especially after I align my vehicle, is to put a new steering wheel on and have the wheel be off center, and "hack" fix it by realigning it. If it doesn't fit on there the way the old one did its coming back off, that would be the source of the problem.

I do like the diagram you posted.

To quote a well know GM service bulletin:

A clank or clunk produced in the driveline is caused by the stacked tolerances between all the components in the driveline. Attempting to correct this problem should only be done if obvious signs of excessive clearance exist, since all clearances affect the complaint as a whole, fixing one clearance may not correct the complaint.

I would just call that crappy engineering, but hey, that's just me.