Anyone know of problems with MSD ignition setups killing igniters? I'm curious because when I decided to install my MSD setup, I also replaced the rotor and igniter so that everything would be new. Just yesterday, my car sputtered, backfired LOUDLY and shut off. I was able to restart the car immediately. It ran for about another 1/4 mile, hesitated, started backfiring (or misfiring) and shut off again. This time never to start again.

Had the car towed home (forgot to carry my spare distributor ) and went through ALL the MSD tests... everything was working. Boiled down to a bad igniter, the last thing I expected since it was only one week old. I pu the old igniter back in and everything is running.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Below are a couple of pics of the MSD install. I mounted everything securely and sealed where the wires enter the cap.

 

I fear this is a recurring theme with MSD ignitions on Hondas. Perhaps THAT's why so many are re-sold.

 

Is your build forced induction? If so, are you running stock Honda ignotion? If not, what ignition system do you run? Not MSD, I take it

You can see pics of my car as well as read the mods list here:

http://home.sc.rr.com/ntgr/images/civic/

Thanks,

 

No I don't run FI my teg is NA. I'm not running any ignition at present as my car is down for a build-up(sleeves). When I'm done putting it back together it will likely include the digital 6 & other MSD components I paid for YESTERDAY. This is why I'm particularly interested in stories about cars w/ MSD ignitions that burn up one week old ignitors. BTW one of the components I'm receiving w/ my MSD stuff is an OBDI distributor that has...you guessed it...a burned ignitor. Additionally if you look at the classified section of this very board you'll likely find several MSD ignitons for sale. I find it curious that there should be so many for sale. I'm not trying to bash MSD ignitons so don't get your panties in a bunch...like I said I just bought one. I apologize for trying to offer an explanation. I shan't add further to your thread or any other you create in the future...all knowing newbie. Good luck with your non-running car...bro.

 

What does this mean? I wasn't being "smart" or snotty in my last post. Sorry if it came across that way. I was asking genuine questions... looking for answers. I thought that if you were running something other than MSD, I'd try what you had... that's all. The "Not MSD, I take it" was me making a crack at MSD. I'm positive I'll send mine back to Summit if I burn another igniter.

Thanks,

 

Oh...my mistake, & apology. Yeah, it did seem snotty the first time I read it. Perhaps I've had too much coffee.

It's not difficult to imagine how greater spark energy could shorten the life expectancy of the stock igniter, but if it's only going to last a week or two then an MSD ignition wouldn't be at all cost effective for a daily driver. It'll be a couple more weeks at best before I can try mine out and offer any first hand info with my Honda. Perhaps someone else would like to chime in?

 

Guys,

This is a real stab in the dark........ but if the failures are real, there is a phenomena called "ground bounce" where you can move ground a few to many volts if certain high frequency considerations are not done when the dI/dt is great.

That said, if there is an unprotected overstress going on in the ignitor area, try a flexible braid ground from the MSD box to the engine block as close to the dizzy as you can. 1/2 inch or 5/8ths wide tinned braid.

Again, I have not tested this, nor do I know that it will help. Its a shot in the dark based on ...... non Honda, non MSD related somewhat similar failures in another industry. (Is that enough disclaimers for ya!)

Regards,
BigMoose


[Modified by BigMoose, 4:41 PM 2/12/2003]

 

The msd boxs is suppose to be mounted in a cool non moist place. If its mounted in a hot place then it will ruin it. genyosai the place where you mounted it, when you drive thats where all the hot air blows back I would think. Just a thing to think off.

 

Allot of people mount them there or in a very similar location. You're suggesting that the unit gets too hot and it wrecks not the MSD unit, but the ignitor? Seems unlikely to me. I'd sooner suspect some type of electrical issue as the Moose suggested, or it's simply too much voltage &/or current for the ignitor to cope with.

 

Thanks for all the input here, fellas. However, it's not my MSD box that died, but a brand new igniter. I was wondering if anyone here has had igniter problems since an MSD isntall. I put my old igniter back in and everything is running fine again... but for how long I'm not sure. If I blow another igniter within a week's time, I'll blame it on the MSD and get rid of it for maybe a Crane Cams unit... I don't know. I need something though, because I'm about to turn up the boost


[Modified by genyosai, 12:01 PM 2/13/2003]

 

No ignitor probs and I've had my 6AL on for over a week.

 

I poked around a little more and found this post:

http://www.carreview.com/Ignitions/M...2_2890crx.aspx

Basic quote was:

Summary:
The car performed well for about a year then it randomly began to break-up at between 2k & 3.5k rpm, crusing & under hard acceleration. This MSD SCI unit with SS coil pack & 8mm wires with stock distributor cap looks good & is great when working but I have lost one coil (MSD did replace it)and a ignitor. To date I have been towed 3 times. I thought I lost another ignitor per the MSD ignition test but just decided to bypass the SCI unit for the heck of it and wamo the car cranked_so you figure.

Can you share a wiring diagram or such? What exactly does MSD tell you to do in the installation? Perhaps we can put a few heads together here and figure out where a transient is getting into the mix. There are a couple of other good EE's here, comments/ideas?

Regards,
BigMoose

 

Mine ran for about a week and a half before failing Let us know how yours works out.

Does anyone know what I need to do to get out of this trial user status? I can't post more than 5 times a day as is. I'm getting so much feedback from this topic, but I run out of "reply supply"

 

I think it's a mystery exactly wtf is wrong with honda igniters..? I think they're just weak and shitty is the bottom line. I've had 2 die on me w/in the last yr. Granted they weren't new but STILL, what a pita.. Not to mention I'm using a stock ignition so I don't think the msd is the culprit. There are many people that have igniters failing w/ the stock ignition, and many w/ the msds. I know many people running aftermarket ignitions that have never had a problem with an igniter, so I don't think it's the ignition.

Either way.. just a word of warning to people.. I'm 90% sure now that my last motor cracked a sleeve because of a faulty igniter. It started missing but I ignored it and got on it and kaboom. Towed the car home and found a cracked sleeved and a faulty igniter Apparently when the igniter goes bad the timing goes nuts and it detonated..

-Mike

 

I thought I'd blown my new build when the igniter went. The car sputtered and stalled first. Then it let out one of the loudest backfires I'd ever heard. The car shut off with the backfire. I was able to start it again, drove about a 1/4 mile, and it backfired and shut off again. This time it wouldn't start.

The motor seems to be unharmed. I hope it stays that way. As for Honda having crappy igniters... I have to agree. My 88 CRX Si had a failed igniter. My 91 Accord had two failed igniters and one failed distributor. My 92 Prelude had one failed igniter and failed distributor. Distributor on the 92 Prelude locked up and damaged my intake cam as well. It didn't give me warning like the Accord Distributor... no noises at all that I could here. So I suppose I was lucky that a new cam is all that I needed... as well as new dist.

 

Well that kind of gives me hope that it's not all the MSD ignitions fault. I've never replaced an igniter on any of my Hondas, that's 5 different cars over the last 10 years or so. Perhaps the MSD just puts a bit more stress on the igniter that may well have failed anyway at some point? I dunno, I'm putting in an MSD digital 6 and I think I'll keep a spare ignitor around to be safe.

 

Definitely keep a spare I do. The igniter that blew was a brand new one. I put back in the old igniter, it worked but I wanted to replace it since it has 80,000+ miles on it. I have TWO more igniters that I keep... one in the hatch. Actually, it's a spare distributor that I carry around so that a swap can be quick. Murphy's law had it so that I'd just removed my small tool kit from the car on the morning that the igniter went, so I didn't have my 12mm so that I could replace it on the roadside.

I also keep a spare fuel pump relay once one gets close to 150,000 miles on it My accord, both preludes, both integras, and now my civic have all had these relays fail. ALL around 150,000 miles. Aside from the igniters and fuel pump relays... Hondas have been good to me.