Met a few pretty cool kids tonight and had a nice argument about this topic. Basically the kid tried to tell me that if you're given two cars, same hp, same weight, same gearing, one N/A and one FI, that the N/A car will always win. Express your thoughts on this.

I basically tried to tell him that in general, an FI car will have a fatter powerband and thus be faster. Of course this is over simplification, but point is still made.

 

there is already a big thread on this somewhere on here , same hp vs hp allmotor will win , but allmotor is limeted compared to turbo .
say two cars exact weight and driver ability and tranny the all motor will win

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elrandeeto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is already a big thread on this somewhere on here , same hp vs hp allmotor will win , but allmotor is limeted compared to turbo .
say two cars exact weight and driver ability and tranny the all motor will win</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why? This is garbage and I couldnt disagree more. Honestly, it could work either way, depending. For example, two dyno graphs:

275 whp FI


255 whp FI


290/240 whp FI


268 whp NA (erik racings gsr)


As you can see, even the BEST of NA powerbands still cannot completely compete with an FI powerband. Honestly though, this thread is nearly pointless. There are far too many variables, but really, two cars with equal powerbands, FI or NA should be basically equivelent.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why? This is garbage and I couldnt disagree more.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm with you on this. Power and torque delivery happens alot earlier and quite frankly I'd rather have a car that gives instant power at low rpm than waiting for it to wind up.
Also you have less chance of wheelspin, you dont have to shift immediately after you launch as you still have lots of revs till redline, rather than a NA engine that you have to launch close to redline to get any power.

 

Same thing I told you last night. This is chris with phantom grey hatch.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elrandeeto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is already a big thread on this somewhere on here , same hp vs hp allmotor will win , but allmotor is limeted compared to turbo .
say two cars exact weight and driver ability and tranny the all motor will win</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000r#0283 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Same thing I told you last night. This is chris with phantom grey hatch.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah, whatever...

 

Btw, exhaust comes in today. If it gets here soon enough, itll be on for the weekend

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elrandeeto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is already a big thread on this somewhere on here , same hp vs hp allmotor will win , but allmotor is limeted compared to turbo .
say two cars exact weight and driver ability and tranny the all motor will win</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm with this guy. All motor will win for the most part with same hp vs. same hp, but in the end the All motor has to stop somewhere, whereas the possibilities of making such and such power with a turbo are practically endless.

 

Usually the only reason a less powerful A/M car will be quicker than a F/I car is that the A/M car can put down the power, whereas the turbo car might be spinning hard out of the hole and will have a slower ET because of that.

 

anybody eles?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000r#0283 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anybody eles?</TD></TR></TABLE>

So whats going on with your friends hatch? Does he still want me to tune it?

 

I say it's a crap argument. You'll NEVER have this scenario. This could never happen on a similar motor. Why? B/C an all motor B18c pumping out 220whp is almost maxed on power and still somewhat lacking in tourque, compared to FI. A FI B18c pushing 220 whp hasn't even begun to make power yet. If I had a FI B18c with 220 whp then I'd be severly upset . For that reason, I select all motor b/c the motor is probably tuned right and running healthy. Something is obviously not right with the FI motor.

Now turbo D vs. NA B with same hp. I would take the B any day.

 

have a question concerning this topic. Why is it that an all motor civic with around 220whp can run 12's but ive never seen any FI setup with around 250whp run 12's?

why cant i take a smaller turbo and make 200+whp and run twelves, instead of having to use a massive turbo to get the same results?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marcusgnf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have a question concerning this topic. Why is it that an all motor civic with around 220whp can run 12's but ive never seen any FI setup with around 250whp run 12's?

why cant i take a smaller turbo and make 200+whp and run twelves, instead of having to use a massive turbo to get the same results?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My answer is that you can. Most all motor 12 second cars w/ 200+whp have a lot more done for traction, weight, etc. than turbo cars do. If the hosepower, traction, weight and gearing are the same, then both cars will run the same times. 12secs turbo will be much cheaper than N/A...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marcusgnf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">have a question concerning this topic. Why is it that an all motor civic with around 220whp can run 12's but ive never seen any FI setup with around 250whp run 12's?

why cant i take a smaller turbo and make 200+whp and run twelves, instead of having to use a massive turbo to get the same results?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Probably because an all motor putting out 220whp is pretty extreme and had to achieve. By the time you get there you've probably done a lot of **** to the rest of your car to make it go fast.

220whp with a turbo...you just slap a turbo onto your grocery getter and call it a day.

That's my take on it from the limited knowledge I have about FI and NA tuning.

 

so what your saying is if i get better traction aid's - such as tires,traction bars,springs,..etc i can get into 12's with around 300whp?(dont answer it im guessing so)

but what about gearing? people tell me all the time for turbo get a tranny with taller gears such as an LS.

but why not the b16 tranny. it would accellerate quicker but wouldnt traction become more of an issue(as a result making 1/4 mile times go down), especially when i start making more horsepower

 

man with 300 whp turbo car... you would be hella faster than 12s. i mean you guys were saying 220 on NA motor will hit 12s... 300whp is 80whp more... so i think you would dip into the 11s!! LOL!

ok im just messing... NA will win. ive seen it happen all the time.