Whats better and im sorry if this is a repost because I did a search and found jack Shi*.

 

From what perspective? Which is more reliable over the long term, cheaper, more bang for the buck, etc...? It depends on which point of view you come at it from as to which is the best. Personally I think the B18C1 is better overall, because it's engineered specifically for what you're using it for.

 

ditto.
i have CRV-tec...if i knew then what i knew now...i wouldve sleeved and bored my B18C1...

 

They are both good engines but it all depends on your budget and application. A gsr bottom end is going to cost you alot more than a LS bottom end. Besides the LS has more displacement and it is just as reliable. I think the gsr can be reved higher over all but on a street car it isn't a problem.

 

B18C1 is factory made DOHC VTEC motor, it has everything that it need to be reliable to make certain amount of power.

LS/VTEC is mixing and matching a motor which was designed to handle 7000rpm with parts that makes bulk of its power past 7500-8500rpm is not exactly the best idea. it might hold up but it was never designed to do so.

sleeved B18C on the other hand can mean torque + high revs without compromises in relability.

from what i have seen ls/vtec only when built properly can be just as reliable. but to do some means alot more $$$ then brand new shortblock from Honda...upgrades will need to include at least shotpeening rods, higher c/r pistons, girdle, oil pump, oil cooler, knock sensor, oil line, and much more inorder to just duplicate the B18C1 specs

 

Yes, a LS was never designed by Honda to rev to 8000+ rpms or use a vtec head but saying building a Ls/vtec costs more than a brand new gsr short block is ridiculous. Why will you have to shot peen the LS rods? The GSR rods are not shotpeened. You only need the ARP rods bolts ($40) because the stock LS rods have really bad rod bolts. You also don't need the girdle and oil cooler. The girdle would help if you were making 600whp and revving it to 10,000 rpms. The oil cooler on the back of the block was only on the 94-95 gsr motors anyways. Honda realized that they are bullshit and took them off for 96. The oil lines to feed the head are only $50 for everything. A gsr motor may be easier to do but there is no way it is cheaper.


[Modified by turbohonda, 1:16 PM 1/14/2003]

 

-LS rod is not as strong as GSR (fact)
-LS to rev that high safely will benefit from a girdle, otherwise honda would not throw them in ther B18Cs for nothing (r/s ratio?/ stresses) (fact)
- oil cooler is sort of a gray area, but the oil pump is defianlty not the same unit with the same efficency found in the GSR. (fact)
-oilines which can easily be damaged, unscrewed or leak is not something I would take on my 3000k mile trip. (try to imagine that you're on road time to change oil you pull up to a redneck or quick oil changes, you tell them to do..so no problem but a problem occurs when they have a small predicament with the seized filter so he takes a 'oil wrench' but then it slips hit the oil line damging it, which you cannot see anything you go and then in the middle of nowehere you notice something but its too late and your LS/VTEC no longer operates due to lack of oil in.) - i mean it may sound far fetched but a defintley something like this would not happen in a B18C1. (fact)

as factory design is to be reliable, compact, without any major intrustions and in case of accidents or some problem not to self destruct or leave the user/customer stranded. (fact)

-will a LS/VTEC without upgrades above be reliable enough to drive (fact)

I mean there are many benefits, but to just emulate the stock GSR it takes much more $$$ then just buying one.

this is the same case with GSR vs Type R (cars) or even LS vs GSR
I mean with properly spent money one can outrun the other, but there is sometimes more to it then just brute power.

 

B18C1, wont crap out on you after 6 months.

 

yuper

 

If you're rebuilding a b18c, chances are you're going to replace the oil pump. So in a build of b18b OR b18c, the oil pump cost is the same.

Pardon my French but what a load of ****!

The lines used in 9 out of 10 LS/VTEC setups I've seen are braided stainless line. I don't think I need to mention that these lines are stronger than any hose that comes under the hood of a stock Integra

What if the "redneck quick oil change" guy were to accidentally leave your oil cap or drain plug off? Or slip and accidentally poke a hole in your gas tank? Or accidentally punch you in the face for driving a Honda?

I can't believe you use this example in your argument against LS/VTEC.

Again with the notion that LS/VTECs just blow themselves up... Have you ever seen a b18c with a spun rod bearing? Sure, there are tons of them. Would you consider that self-destruction?

Your main concern seems to be reliability. In that case I'd be with you and say get a STOCK Integra and leave it that way. But don't go thinking about adding any performance parts... your motor won't last as long!!!!

Some drivers do not particularly care if their motor will last 300,000 miles. An LS/VTEC is a good choice for some people because of the cost, and when built properly it actually makes MORE power than a GSR with the same mods.

All that being said, there is no "best" motor because "best" is subjective. Best in what respect? Do you want the best bang for your buck? LS/VTEC is a very popular choice for this purpose. Realize, though, that most people doing an LS/VTEC for cost reasons alone will NOT being using a GSR oil cooler or block girdle, and will understand the repercussions of not doing everything that Honda does to make the motor last forever.

If you're looking for a motor to just drop in and not have to worry about it, b18c is a good choice. It costs more, but you pay for the peace of mind that this is a totally stock motor that will last a long time.

Just like in everything else there are compromises. Do what's right for you.

In the mean time, I better go check my oil line for damage caused by a redneck.

Justin

 

some people are just Scared of the LSVTEC

******

 

The LS/vtec is completely reliable, cheaper than a GSR, and makes more power with the same mods. The reason the LS/vtec issue always turns into a big debate is because there is alot of dipshit people out there trying to assemble them when they really don't know what the hell they are doing. That is how the LS/vtec gets a bad rep.

As a word of advice if you don't know what you are doing don't try!!!!! It is going to cost you more in the end when the motor ***** up.

 

What if the "redneck quick oil change" guy were to accidentally leave your oil cap or drain plug off? Or slip and accidentally poke a hole in your gas tank? Or accidentally punch you in the face for driving a Honda?

I can't believe you use this example in your argument against LS/VTEC.


hahhhhhaahahahahaaaaaha

 

what motor puts out more power?? b18c1 or ls/vtec???

 

The arguement is perfectly legit. While it is always possible that someone might damage other stuff, the greatest potential for damage occurs when the hazard is unanticipated. In other words, most people know to look out for certain things (like tightening the oil plug). But that extra oil line is not the sort of thing most mechanics expect to encounter. It's kind of like someone bashing your 4-1 JDM ITR header when doing a perfectly normal maneuver of driving a lowered CRX into a parking lot at 10MPH.

 

Very True...but if you can see that bright silver (oil) line then i dont know what to say....

[Modified by 10K2HVN, 10:24 PM 1/16/2003]

 

An LS/Vtec vs B18C1 would be very close. If the frankenmotor has the LS tranny and equal drivers I'd put money on the GSR to win. Now if it was a CRVtec powered car vs a B18C1 powered car of equal weight then that'd be a different story, and I'd bet on the frankenmotor with it's increased displacement.

 

I see your point, but remember that when I add an extra oil line or I lower my car, it is my responsibility to be aware of the problems that might present.

If my car is riding in the weeds because I lowered it 3", I'm not going to let anyone drive it who won't be as careful with it as I am. What if the car is turbocharged? This involves the addition of at least 2 oil lines and you could do this to a stock b18c. My point is that this could become an issue on any modified car; it's not a b18c vs. ls/vtec argument.

The point he made about extra responsibility was a legitimate one, but his argument was weak at best and was based more on hearsay and his uncertainty than facts.

Justin

 

who in there right mind Would Use a LS tranny on a Vtec motor

 

Allot of people slap a B16 head on their LS block and change the tranny later...or never change the tranny. Not to be a dick or anything, but DUH.

 

I agree, a lot of people are scared of ls/vtec or put one together wrong..If you build one, build it right. I have 20k miles on my ls/vtec and rev to 9k daily. Now thats what I call reliability. The power and torque from this motor is ungodly. I my ls/vtec.

 

ok now i got to get my two cents in on this. any of those motors can be reliable, just depends on who, and how its built and also what kinda of driver you are and how well you maintain your vehicle. ive worked at an import shop for about 4 yrs now, and have built many different combonations of honda motors. i can tell you that any long stroke motor (ls-b20)will make great power all the way to 10000k depending on how its built and tuned. but what you all need to understand is that the piston speed of a ls/b20 spinning at 8000rpm is alot greater than say a b16 or b18c spinning 8000rpm which in turn means more wear and stress to vital componets alot quicker. now all of that can be changed through the rod and the crank which will give you a different rod/stroke ratio but when playing with that you really need to know what your doin. basically just understand that the faster that piston moves up and down, and how far it has to go up and down, the quicker its gonna wear things out. (I will tell you some of the best hp producing motors are resleeved big bore b18c blocks because of the great r/s ratio) but any b18c build up is gonna cost alot more than a ls/b20. (like the saying goes you pay for what you get)


[Modified by JDM4DOOR, 7:09 PM 1/17/2003]

 

LS/CRVTEC's are cool and can make some awesome power but I would still stick the the B18C1... Bore it up to 85mm and you have a higher displacement motor than that of a LS/CRVTEC with a crank that has 1.8mm less of stroke and longer rods resulting in an R/S 0.04 higher than that of a B18A/B, B20B/Z.... I personally like the GSR better for the reasons others have also stated.. The girdle is cool along with the internal oil feed.. (I think it's probably just me but I hate the external oil feed that LS/CRVTEC require because it's just plain ugly) Some people like the oil squirters, I don't because all they do is throw the rotational assemblies balance off and if you sleeve your motor up you're going to have to close them off anyways... In LSVTEC's OE pistons (PR3, P30, and PCT) cast slugs do just fine without them.... Forged is even better and again you'll need them if you sleeve up... Anyways this is my $0.02... B18C1 Good Luck

 

well what is the CORRECT reliable LS/VTEC that will NOT break my wallet? anyone want to help a n00b out??

 

There is really no such thing. If you want a reliable motor (LS-VTEC or otherwise), expect to pay. There are no shortcuts.