is there a differnce in rods when talking about itr pistons and rods. what if im using the itr pistons and the ls rods? OR!! just using the whole itr pistons and rods do i still have to mill the in side part of the itr pistons and hone the cyclinder????

 

Umm.... the whole point of a LS/VTEC is to make more power then a B18C. And a LS/VTEC only makes more power cuz of the rod/stoke and compression. If yu go back to the Type R or GSR rods... then why go LS/VTEC? You should just stick with the GSR or TYPE R they came in!

 

To begin w/ b18c/c1/c5 rods are all the same and you can mate the p73 [itr] pistons onto them w/ out milling 1mm on each side of the ROD near the wristpin area, not the piston. If you decided to use the b16/b17 rods than you will need to mill the rod 1mm on each side, any machine shop can do this!
If you use b18c/c1/c5 rods and p73 pistons you do not need to modify the rods at all!
Lastly, honing refers to whats done to the insider of your cylinder walls, in order to provide a textured surface against which your new rings will seal, you do not hone/mill pistons!

 

What has been failed to be mentioned is that if he uses the ITR/GSR rods, with the ITR pistons, it will lower his compression dramatically.

The point of the LS/VTEC is to get the low end GRUNT, with the high compression associated with VTEC engines.

Like I said before, build the LS block to be strong, get the Z10 engineering crank girdle, and have the whole block balanced. If you plan on revving past 7500 rpm.

 

"What has been failed to be mentioned is that if he uses the ITR/GSR rods, with the ITR pistons, it will lower his compression dramatically."

Well.. No. The LS crank has a longer stroke than the GSR crank. Therefore the pin center of the crank journal is higher in the cylinder. To make the pistons sit at the top of the cylidner, the LS rods are shorter. If you were to use GSR rods in your LS block, they are going to be too long and the piston is going to sit atop the deck of the block & cause problems with valve clearances, etc. Using ITR rods & pistons will not lower compression, it will infact increase compression and cause damage to the valves & pistons when they strike.

"Umm.... the whole point of a LS/VTEC is to make more power then a B18C. And a LS/VTEC only makes more power cuz of the rod/stoke and compression. If yu go back to the Type R or GSR rods... then why go LS/VTEC? You should just stick with the GSR or TYPE R they came in!"

This too is incorrect, as Rod/Stroke ratio has nothing to do with power, rather the ability to reduce piston speeds and rev higher (to possibly acheive more power at higher rpm). Compression also has nothing to do with LS/VTEC, as you can alter the compression in any motor by either increasing the positive displacement of the piston or milling the head to decrease the negative displacement in the head's combustion chamber. LS/VTEC by nature has very low compression until you alter these properites.

If you decided to use the b16/b17 rods than you will need to mill the rod 1mm on each side, any machine shop can do this!
If you use b18c/c1/c5 rods and p73 pistons you do not need to modify the rods at all!

Wow.. this is all wrong too. You can't use the B16/b7 rods either, because they are WAY too long. The stroke of a B16 is much less than the LS crank and requires the usage of longer rods to place the pistons at the top of the block. You can't use B18c/c1/c5 rods for the same reasons.

If you are going to use stock rods, use the stock LS rods and have the end of the rod milled (shaved) ~ 1 mm on each side to reduce the tolerances where the rod meets the piston once it is on the wristpin. If you are going to use aftermarket rods, purchase rods that are meant for the B18a/b because they will be the correct length. Whether or not you have to mill the sides will depend on how they are made from the manufacturer. Some rods out there are designed for LS/VTEC operation and will have the correct clearances.[/b]

I hope this helps, as I seriously cannot sit and read mis-information and then read a month later that you broke 16 valves and ruined four brand new pistons because you used rods that were too long in your block.

Rich




[Modified by 3rdShift.org, 7:26 PM 8/16/2001]

 

so in your experience or knowledge you would perfer just using the ls rod with the itr pistons. but with that i must mill the rod or the pistons where both meet. at least 1mm. thats sound very rite after researching about pistons and rods in lsvtec. thanks man.

 

Sorry, my bad, it was late and I must have been thinking B16 rods. Anyways, Rich is correct, the GSR/ITR rods in a LS block will result in damage.


Sorry rich, I don't agree here. The LSVTEC is well known for making much more power at a lower RPM over the GSR. Compression has everything to do with power. The lower the c/r the lower the lower the power numbers. The LSVTEC in it's stock form (B18A/B stock block & VTEC head) isn't worth it's weight, but change the pistons to say, GSR/ITR/B16 and you now have a fire breathing monster. (might not last long, but oh well)

Anyways. Later all.

 

the point of doing an ls vtec is the block is using the block of a b18a or b18b has a long strock which i would say long rods to produce those long strocks. so using a gsr or b16a, it seems like your just using a b16a or gsr block. y use a b16a or gsr rod in a b18a or b block when you can use it in your stock block.

 

You are WRONG. Do I have to draw a diagram?

 

i dont understand your point 3rdShift.org no dramas, i might misunderstood you.

 

This is absolutely stupid. Ty I'm NOT flaming you. I myself am building an ls/vtec. It's almost done. YOU CANNOT USE ANYTHING BESIDES A LS ROD IN LS/VTEC. Period. You can use after-market ls rods. If you use anything else, you WILL run into clearance problems. ITR pistons will raise your compression, which is what you want if your going with a N/A setup. If you have any other q's IM me.

 

I agree with you that higher compression results in more power. This although has nothing to do with an LS/VTEC, as having more stroke (& a properly fitted set of rods that places the piston at the top of the block correctly) has nothing to do with compression. An GSR motor w/ LS block & GSR pistons should make more torque down low due to the increase in stroke, and nothing else.

 

yes,yes, yes. just saying they have a taller dome, move more area. ya know tha rest. you seem intelligent.

 

I hear ya, we're on the same page

 

"the point of doing an ls vtec is the block is using the block of a b18a or b18b has a long strock which i would say long rods to produce those long strocks."

tysir-rod length has nothing to do with the stroke of an engine. It is the rotational diameter (did I say that right?) of where the rods mount to the crank. Say that that you followed this point around for one rotation of the crank, it would draw a circle. The diameter of this circle would be the stroke. Rod length only serves to determine what piont within the cylinder that the piston goes up and down. Hope this helps. If you have any questions about any of it, just ask.

 

man thats what im talking about, i think you must of misunderstood me, what i meant to say was that if your doing an ls setup rite, you must use and an ls rod what bb6h22a said was that you can use the b17, 16, 18c rods with out any mods. i do agree that you must you an ls rod or aftermarket. but what i dont understand from bb6h22a is that y would you use a b16a rod on a ls setup when you need the ls rod to produce the long strock. or is just the crank shaft that does all the strocking? im 110% on your back with using ls rods.

 

The distance from the center of the crank journal to the center of the crank IS the stroke. The rod is whatever length necessary to put the piston @ the top of the block. It's the LS crank of an LS/V that makes it a potent powerful motor, the rods are only build to accompany the crank.

 

yep