call me stupid but what is lsa an acronym for? wouldn't you give up the high redline for higher output and more power under the curve?

 

LSA, lobe seperation angle.

I would give RPM and peak power for lower engine speeds and area under the curve without hesitation. I was just wondering if they could have both. I guess not.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LsVtec92Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive argued this before and ill argue it again, VTEC and turbo do NOT go hand and hand.

Turbo vehicles do not like alot of overlap, VTEC is all about overlap.</TD></TR></TABLE>


i dont understand that, especially when people build turbo vtec motors that make more power then non-vtec turbo'ed cars. dont turbos like the fact that vtec opens up the valves to allow more air to flow?

 

To make a long story short.....Bob Norwood out in Texas.....I hope most of you have heard of him before. If not, I think you can do a little search on H-T here. But he built me my motor and I had to convert my EX civic ( vtec ) to non-vtec. Because of the overlap of vtec. From what I hear it takes away in high RPM. I don't know. I sounds logical though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LsVtec92Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ive argued this before and ill argue it again, VTEC and turbo do NOT go hand and hand.

Turbo vehicles do not like alot of overlap, VTEC is all about overlap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

VTEC & a turbocharger go hand in hand.

Sure alot of configuation changes will be made INCLUDING dialing out the overlap/introducing stock turbo pulley setup for very little/no overlap.
Honda wouldn't just stick a turbo on an engine.

The higher lift & duration allows more air & fuel to flow.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jason190 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To make a long story short.....Bob Norwood out in Texas.....I hope most of you have heard of him before. If not, I think you can do a little search on H-T here. But he built me my motor and I had to convert my EX civic ( vtec ) to non-vtec. Because of the overlap of vtec. From what I hear it takes away in high RPM. I don't know. I sounds logical though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What! The guy told you to get rid of VTEC because of the overlap instead of just telling you to buy a pair of adjustable cam-pulleys/followers! lol

Now thats some f*cked up sh*t!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 9d DA6 TEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


i dont understand that, especially when people build turbo vtec motors that make more power then non-vtec turbo'ed cars. dont turbos like the fact that vtec opens up the valves to allow more air to flow?</TD></TR></TABLE>

so would a high lift long duration non-vtec turbo cam. plus its cheaper to build.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LsVtec92Hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so would a high lift long duration non-vtec turbo cam. plus its cheaper to build.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes but vtec isn't just about the top end. it's about having the high lift long duration lobes for the high rpm AND the lower lift/duration lobes for the lower rpms. sure in drag racing vtec is worthless because you never go below x amount of rpms. for real driving (auto x) you don't get to spend all your time in the top portion of your powerband so it's nice to have TWO sets of lobes each designed specifically for their respective rpm range rather than one designed strictly for the higher rpms. no stock honda cam has enough overlap to actually have a negative impact on a turbo car. granted vtec may be more expensive and a bitch to tune but it can only help.

bob norwood builds some of the best cars in the world and i can't imagine why he would want you to dump the vtec other than ease of tuning.


Modified by Brett at 7:52 PM 1/31/2005

 

That'd be badass to have a Si-T putting out 250. I want to see it just so I can hear all the n/a people whine

 

V-TEC is not all about overlap, its all about the ability to change cam timing/profiles I.E. an economy profile and a higher rev turbo tuned cam

 

build two identical engines one with a ls head and one with a gsr head . Use the biggest set of turbo cams you can get your hands on and a redline of 9000 rpm. Which engine will be faster at 30 lbs of boost. Or take a stock gsr and turbo it and a stock ls and do the same. Which engine will have the most area under the power curve . Vtec plain and simple. No ls motor has made more power than a properly built vtec motor in an allout configuration. LB for lb of boost that is the case. The vtec heads flow better also and even when they are both ported they are still better. Sorry ls guys. Some pros dont run vtec for simplicity or the fact they are running in the upperband most of the race . If the non vtec heads were better than they would run them but they dont. Go hand in hand with turbo and offer a better cam configuration for the two different rpm bands wich boosts efficiency and overall output throughout the powerband also.

 

whoa! we shall see..

 

I agree with vtecmissile, raised a couple of good points.

 

*Some of the information presented here is speculative, and is not provided nor endorsed by Honda Motor Co., Inc.


i doubt it honda is all about NA

but .....i think there was one stock turbo honda in the 80s, maybe i am making this up but i think i remember seeing it on here

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xerox445 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, Honda has a 3 person watercraft that has a 165 HP 1.2L turbo 4 cyl, GPS, and the ability to tow a huge boat if needed be lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>

we have two :-)

 

..honda made a turbo bike in I think late 70/early 80s cant remmeber the year.

But what you aslo have to remember is that Honda DOMINATED the F1 turbo era as a engine supplier and with their technoloy Nobuhiko Kawamoto stated they were getting close to 1bhp per cc towards the end of the era.

Honda is an Authority on turbocharging. Ferrari used to envy Honda because they couldn't beat the Honda powered cars!

Either way, if they do or dont create a production turbo engine, you can be sure it'll be excellant what with their knowledge and their approach to every project.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by forgotmypassword!(OTT) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">..honda made a turbo bike in I think late 70/early 80s cant remmeber the year.

But what you aslo have to remember is that Honda DOMINATED the F1 turbo era as a engine supplier and with their technoloy Nobuhiko Kawamoto stated they were getting close to 1bhp per cc towards the end of the era.

Honda <U>WAS</U> an Authority on turbocharging. Ferrari used to envy Honda because they couldn't beat the Honda powered cars!

Either way, if they do or dont create a production turbo engine, you can be sure it'll be excellant what with their knowledge and their approach to every project.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Corrected that for ya

 

Honda wouldn't throw away years of technical research they've accumulated.

What would make you say that anyway?

 

this is going to be interesting if it holds true

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by forgotmypassword!(OTT) &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Either way, if they do or dont create a production turbo engine, you can be sure it'll be excellant what with their knowledge and their approach to every project.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll have to agree. Honda usually does put out excellent products. I'm not an expert, so I won't talk about what I don't know. What I do know is that Honda makes it a very important point to introduce reliability (quality) and economy into every design they make for the public. VTEC itself as well as Honda's ECU programming are all products of this ambition.

In short, turbo or not, Honda won't be putting out a third gen RX-7 any time soon. It's inconsistent with their philosophy to exchange reliability or economy for power, no matter what the case. Even if they are, or were an authority on turbocharging, whatever, that doesn't mean they'd apply that to their street cars.

My N00b Speculation: If they introduce a turbo engine to the public, I have a good idea it would be something different in some way from the norm, but it can't be the road monster some people sound like they're picturing. It would probably boost the way turbo miatas do (small number, i dunno, like 5-8 lbs. or something), maybe with VTEC. Their goal would most probably be to give consistent performance through all ranges rather than throw it all into top end horsepower (in spite of a turbo, i guess...). I can see a honda engine boosting in low gears...

My train of thought suddenly ended.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GuyverZen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In short, turbo or not, Honda won't be putting out a third gen RX-7 any time soon. It's inconsistent with their philosophy to exchange reliability or economy for power, no matter what the case. Even if they are, or were an authority on turbocharging, whatever, that doesn't mean they'd apply that to their street cars.

My N00b Speculation: If they introduce a turbo engine to the public, I have a good idea it would be something different in some way from the norm, but it can't be the road monster some people sound like they're picturing. It would probably boost the way turbo miatas do (small number, i dunno, like 5-8 lbs. or something), maybe with VTEC. Their goal would most probably be to give consistent performance through all ranges rather than throw it all into top end horsepower (in spite of a turbo, i guess...). I can see a honda engine boosting in low gears...

My train of thought suddenly ended.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im surprised you didnt know this then but Honda have hot-housed engineers between the race track and production car factory develpment departments for year. They even say in their book that that was the key to their sucess.

Most of your last pargraph is just speculation, We haven many facts to go on but I feel it safe to assume the supercar will have awesome power.

The latest production turbo car Honda have done is the Accord Diesel TDCDI (or somthing like that?!?), I expect some of the technology like a variable nozzle turbocharger would be used to minimize spool time/turbo lag.