About 3 years ago before doing my GSR swap, I got stranded in a parking lot after a coil went bad. To prevent that from happening again...I know some people just replace the coil every so often. The other way might be to use an external coil. I won't spend a $1000 on a coil on plug setup, so I'm looking at the VMS or MSD coil and the disributor cap that goes with it. About $100.

Anybody have experience with these products?

Thanks....thoughts, opinions?

 

There are a few options for this:
Accel "Super Coil" (this replaces the OEM internal coil in the distributor, advertised as having 10-20% more energy than OEM)
MSD Blaster External Coil (Requires changing the distributor cap as well, the coil itself is externally mounted)
Aftermarket "High Output" distributors (IE the AIP Dragon Fire distributors, which is a full replacement aftermarket distributor that includes something similar to the Accel coil pre-installed)

I'm going to be using one of the Dragon Fire dizzys on my current build and will post all of my results once the car is running. I've heard positive things from all 3 of the options I listed above, haven't seen many results from the AIP dizzys with imports but I know they're very popular and get good reviews for older domestics. Used to run an external MSD coil on my old Foxbody.

 

I purchased a Dragonfire for my GSR swap. It came, not DOA, but with bad internal parts. They won't get another chance from me. I use to use Supercoils....on several vehicles. I think they now have so-so quality being manufactured in China. I got a bad one for my truck about 5-6 years ago. Won't try another.

I think MSD and maybe VMS have better quality. I do know how they're installed. Those are really the only two I'm asking about. Those two external coils that require a special cap..

Thanks

 

Well, fugg. The OEM distributor I had was rather banged up so that's part of why I decided to just get a complete replacement. Hopefully I have better luck because otherwise a new OEM dizzy is $700+ now, or as you pointed out a COP conversion which costs close to the same and are prone to their own set of problems.

 

It reved really well and responsive... except for the miss. They offered to send me the needed parts. I declined. They paid for return shipping too. I just have a policy, if you send me a bad part, it's over. I consider their quality control to be poor. It was a couple years ago.... maybe they got better at QC.

Overall, I think internal coils get hot. I'm leaning towards the MSD.

 

I run the MSD Blaster SS external coil and MSD cap w/ rotor button on my Supercharged car... it has worked flawlessly for over 20 years.

 

I've suspected the MSD is the best one. How often do you change the cap? ....and for the heck of it, where'd you mount it? ... not much room under my hood. When I did my gsr swap, I kept the 2-stage intake, AC , power steering...and added two 12" fans. Yours is probably pretty crowded too. I'll probably order some T6 and make a bracket of some sort.

 

I haven't changed my cap in about 20 years... but the truth is I have only put about 7000 miles on it since. Heheh I mounted the coil on a piece of aluminum plate over on the right frame rail just ahead of the shock tower. I don't have a picture handy, but you can look up my Supercharged Engine Build Post (The Blackbird Rises From The Ashes), I believe there is a completed engine bay photo there.

 

I didn't find your image, but I think you can see my dilemma. The firewall area is out. Fuel lines, heater hoses, AC lines...ECU swap harness. Even the speedo cable comes up there. The flat area in front of the shock tower might be a possible...kind'a farther away from the dizzy then I'd like. I don't really wanna take out the fender's plastic insert for this installation.



I see only two other possibilities: one, there are three holes somewhat under the battery. I don't remember what they held and I'd have to crawl under there and make sure what's there. They are threaded and I think I'd have to use bolts and lock-washers, with no nuts. It's a maybe. Not in the cooling path of the fan, but I'd have to make sure it wasn't. The battery and box is easily removed.



The other is the A1s torque mount that is not in use. It is between the fans. I'd still have to be careful not to block air flow directly in front of the water temp sensor. Nobody makes this torque mount for the swap. Hasport assured me it's not necessary. I used their billet mounts. After a couple years of driving it, I'd say they're correct. No torque mount on either side. Unnecessary.



I'm not say either is very doable, but possible.
Other than a couple air-cooled VWs, this was my first engine/trans swap. It all went quite well, and I replaced every part short of opening the block or pulling the head. Also with a P72 and Hondata. Everything converted to obd1. And I prefer cable clutches, so I converted that (on the y-80 lsd) too.

 

I just looked back in my Supercharger Engine Build Thread... and many of my pictures are missing !!! These were all uploaded to Honda-Tech, so I am not sure what the reason for this loss is. Maybe a MOD could answer this. Let me see if I can snap a new pic for you and post it here. I believe you can get the Blaster SS in the corner of where the inner fender and shock tower box meet... it isn't very large.

 

Battery relocation would obviously open up a lot of room, but that's a task on it's own and I know not everyone likes to do that. Not sure what your options would be on a DA, the trunk would work but that eats up interior space. Tucked/mounted inside the fender may also be an option assuming it works similar to an EG/EK/DC2

 

i am amazed by this. no honda that i have come across that had MSD installed ever worked properly.
i always pull the MSD parts off any honda i get and sell them to a domestic guy. usually its a 6A or 6AL. the honda specific parts usually get tossed

my brother jokes that MSD stands for made specifically for domestics

 

no one from hasport would have told you that was not necessary. it just happens to work not using it. same being said with torque mounts

that being said if you look at the space between the fuel filer and ac lines there is enough room there to mount a coil if so desired

 

I don't know how you can make such a statement. That is exactly what your support told me. Don't call me a liar again...and I will no longer recommend your products, not that you care of course.
You are also dead wrong about MSD. I've seen their equipment raved about for 2 or 3 decades. Maybe if you don't know how to install it you might have problems.

Did you even read the post by JRCivic1?

Now I have to consider Hasport no more than people running their mouths about stuff they know nothing about. Nobody but a rookie would make such a statement.
Bye.

Just for info:
MSD Ignition was the first company in the world to experiment with Multiple Spark Discharge for the ignition system of internal combustion engines in 1970. The idea was first proposed by a group of engineers working on the White Sands Missile Range in southern New Mexico. They have had some issues involving "slew rate rev limiters" some years ago around 2004, but their ignition products are mandated as required parts for certain classes in race organizations currently. "Matt Strong asserts that “the company with the most experience in the field has to be MSD, who has at least two duplicate ignitions in every NASCAR series race vehicle". I'd say that's a pretty good recommendation from people that actually know what they're talking about..

 

Maybe calm down and pump the brakes just a tad. It's possible to disagree and not immediately pull your gun out. JR also mentioned that he's only put 7K miles on his setup in the last 20 years, so I don't think we can really use his car too much as a reference point with MSD.

Good luck with your ignition upgrade.
The MSD external coil seems to be the best option if you can mount it, otherwise Accel internal coil.

 

Let me tell you something. I specifically expressed my concerns to Hasport about not having the torque mount during my pre-purchase phone conversations. They told me cars with a 1000 hp didn't have them. It was unnecessary for the longevity of my car. What, they'll say anything for a sale? Now this guy says I'm lying? Damn poor way to represent a company after I specifically raised my concerns about the issue. Maybe they were lying to me and I need to find a torque mount, or maybe the other guy knew what he was talking about. Yeah, I'm pissed. My '90 LS means a lot to me and I took a lot of effort, research, conversation and expense to do what would make it last for the rest of my life.

 

not sure who you talked to on the phone but i take 95% of the phone calls here and those words would have never come out of my mouth. i am a honda guy just like everyone else and give people solid advice. not just some made up BS to try and sell parts. ive been doing hondas since 95 so i think ive been around the block a little bit. i never said MSD was junk. just that in my personal experience it didnt work as intended.
i apologize that it came off like i was calling you a liar. that was not my intent

 

Remember that communication is a two way street. You seem very eager to burn bridges and turn hostile, which is a quick way to landlock yourself especially in a dying hobby with a dying platform.

Anyway, I'mma bounce. Good luck, let us know the results if you care to.

 

also just some food for thought. from the pictures it appears you have an OEM distributor. you can actually take obd1/2 dseries distributor parts and rebuild yours. normally just the ignitor or coil goes bad and those are interchangeable. ive even used the wiring from a dseries to get a fried bseries back up and running

 

Same. about 22 years over here. Still running distributor. Had components ready to go COP using GM Smart Coils, but was having issues getting a cam trigger, so I left it alone.

 

Were you on the phone there 3-4 years ago. That's when I had several conversations with support and was told it wasn't necessary. I was very specific, that I was building for longevity.

...and you said, "i am amazed by this. no honda that i have come across that had MSD installed ever worked properly. I always pull the MSD parts off any honda i get and sell them to a domestic guy"

..and now 2 people have posted they've had the MSD installed on their Hondas over 20 years.

The dizzy on my b18c is a Rich Porter TD-44 or the TD-68. I don't remember which. As I originally posted, I don't wanna put more coils in it. I've used hi-pro external coils for about 45 years. They tend to last 15 or more years.

 

I 'tried' to run a blaster HVC coil on the '94 when it was still running back in the oughts. First one fried after a few thousand miles of daily'ing. MSD kindly sent me another which quit in short order, and I so I went back to a stock distributor and traded the Digital 6-Plus to a Mustang buddy for some weed or something lol.

Fast forward, I put an Accel internal coil in the 00's B20 distributor on or around 2013 and ran it until I swapped over to COP last fall. It has ~80k on it and never missed a beat, plus I can still use an OE cap. Would use again without hesitation - It will actually go back on the car next summer when I have to street-legalize it for emissions time.

 

ive worked at hasport for 15 years and 14 of those years i have answered the phone.

as i stated no honda that i have come across. as in me personally. i cannot speak for others and again i stand amazed just like i said before

your mileage may vary. other individual results may vary. there is always exceptions to every rule. etc

and a little back story to the whole MSD thing just so you dont think im talking out of my ***. if you look back previously i said ive been doing hondas for a long time. since 95. i dont know everything about everything but i do know a little bit.
back then when this whole import thing was getting started there was no honda-tech, there was no tried and true way to make hondas go fast. everyone was experimenting and some people went down the V8 route to make their little 4 cylinders faster because thats what they knew. it didnt always work and that brings me to MSD. i used to buy sell trade hondas back then. still do but not the extent i did. i never installed MSD but i would get cars that had it installed. mind you this was 6A boxes and 6AL made for V8 domestics that people thought would help their little honda. typically it did not and going back to a stock distibutor would smooth things out. so much like yourself when you get a crap part or burned it sticks with you and you dont deal with it again. thats my personal take on MSD and its stuck with me through the years. if i had a 69 camaro with a 396 would i have MSD on it. absolutely. my bswapped 93 civic. not so much

 

I've had at least 10-12 Accel Super Coils from mid-60s VWs, my current '97 Ranger 2.3L, and on lots of older motorcycles. I used to swear by them. Then I got one DOA out of the box. I figured they probably moved their manufacturing to China. When it costs you 2+ weeks of shipping time...well that aggravates me to no end.

I've been buying high-end aftermarket for 40+ years. 99.8% work out of the box.

 

I hear you, just offering my perspective and experience. I don't personally think the MSD is up to the task of living on a street car. Again, just my personal experience. You have yours and that's valid too.

Coils & ignitors have always been a pinch point on these cars. The OEM ones generally last a really long time. When I was wrenching, I would keep a brand new one of each in my box. If a no-spark car came in, I'd just swap them in one at a time, send the car on its way when it fired up, and put the next new one in my box after the customer was already gone. It was a continuous cycle. I still keep spares to this day.

The new issue for me has been finding a distributor where the wiring insulation from the sensors isn't all deteriorated and crumbly. Can't really rewire the mag sensors since they are potted:



So I'm going to try this set of replacement sensors in a spare distributor and see how it goes, just for the sake of the experiment. If they work fine, I've saved a distributor for ~$40. If they don't, it's no more of a paper weight than it is now.

FIT Ignition Distributor SENSOR 1999 2000 2001 Honda CRV CR-V 2.0L DOHC TD74U | eBay


What ecu are you running? Have you considered coil on plug? There are easy (mostly) plug & play solutions now, even for oem ecus - and four oem coils are better than one MSD or Accel.


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