Went to DSR today to Dyno tune my car.
I have a 2000 Integra GS-R with:

Skunk2 Stage 1 Cams
Skunk2 Cam Gears
VAFC
AEM CAI
DC 4-1 Header
B&M FPR


Baseline run: 150.8wHP 103.1 lbs of Torque

WTF?! With all that stuff I get power LOWER than stock?!

(I think to myself, Maybe because I need tuning)

After adjusting cam gears and Vafc settings, I get:

158.6wHP 111.4 lbs of Torque


WTF?! That's it?!


Lawrence at DSR said it is because the car is HOT. They broke their Dyno Fan today so we ran my car at 97 degrees with no fan, so I guess it was pretty damn hot.

but STILL. I am very dissapointed with the numbers I got...

 

Assuming 15% drivetrainloss, stock would be 144whp.

158whp is a 14whp increase.

 

Actually, I hit 161wHP on the second run but run after run, my car was getting REAL hot, so we started to lose horsepower.

At the end, Lawrence at DSR said he couldn't even touch my Intake because it was steaming hot. Maybe that's why I got such low numbers? He said he usually runs the Dyno fan, but it got broken today, so we ran without it and the temperature was 97 degrees...


still dissapointed. I was expecting around 170-180wHP...

 

More importantly, what does your car run at the track?

 

I too was dissapointed in my cars numbers after tuning last Friday.

I got 186.1/130.1.

Lawrence only spent 28 minutes and only adjusted my cam gears and lowered vtec point to 5400.

He said he couldnt squeeze anymore power out of my set up, however I've seen others get higher with a very similar set up.

Skunk, where are you located Union City? Im in Fremont.

 

there's absolutely no way in hell that you are going to hit 180whp with that setup in a GS-R. Sorry to disappoint you.

I had my car dyno'ed in that type of heat and it made a 15 whp difference from when i last dyno'ed it. Heat/humidity can make a big big difference when strapping your car to a dyno. I think with the heat (97 degrees like you said) your car performed well under the conditions with your mods as stated. 180whp is pushing it IMO

mike

 

Yea. I live in Union City. You? What's your name? I think a friend of mine told me about you and how you had to pay DSR the full 1 hour even though you got your car tuned for 28 minutes. What mods do you have?


As for the numbers I got, yea... Alot of people tell me HEAT/Humidity makes a BIG difference... Guess I gotta try Dyno tuning it when its cooler outside with the fan on this time...

 

Im Brian, Im in Fremont.

Yeah I paid a full hour and didnt realize that he tuned it for 28 minutes until I looked at the print out.

I called him back about it and he said I was charged for getting my car on and off the dyno as well as borrowing one of their cut valve covers. I think I was more dissapointed of the fact that it wasnt an hour and he kind of gave up and just told me that he couldnt get anymore out of it. He said "I'll pay you if you can get a couple more out of it." My baseline was terrible at 168/119. I was shooting for around 190/132. Im not that far off, it was I guess his attitude about the situation.

He is rated for good work, but I dont think I'll be going back there for future tuning.

 

So what mods do you have? I heard you got those numbers with ITR cams? That's impressive. What other mods do you have?

 

I dont run Itr cams, theyre skunk stage 1's.

JG Redline head .020mill
Skunk 1 cams
Aem Cai
Jdm 4-1
UR crank pulley
Kenji P28
Fields Vtec
B&M fpr
2.5" Piping/cat

I did a baseline at Atp in March put down 174.5/122.5 and that is without the P28/Jdm 4-1/JG head/Fpr. But my midrange is so much better since then.

 

oh ok. Did Lawrence run the fan when you got your car Dyno'd? What was the temperature? I touched my intake after the last run and that thing almost burned the skin off my finger tips...

I think I'll get a Skunk2 Intake Manifold along with a 2.5" free flowing exhaust and dyno tune my car under much cooler conditions and see where I'm at...

 

I think with those mods they arent bad numbers, with tuning you should see better results but with basic (or close to basic) bolt on mods, your not going to see a lot change from stock. It just doesnt happen.....just my .02

 

Just came back test driving it because its cool outside. Boy does it feel different! That thing PULLS now. I can especially feel it in the mid range.

It's NOTICEABLY faster than before. I'll try getting my car Dyno'd under cooler conditions next time...

 

Oh yea. I forgot to say something...

My torque curve is very odd. I hit my PEAK Torque at 3000rpm!

It drops from 5000rpm - 6500rpm then goes back up from then on.

 

What kind of intake manifold are you guys running? I hope the Skunk2 intake manifold.

The GS-R intake manifold is the not the best thing for those cams.

-kenji

 

I've found that a lot of tuners do this: The clock literally starts when they leave the building to get your car and ends when they leave your car after parking it.

 

The heat soat is what's killing you...go back when the fan is working and you'll see a world of difference.

Also...when was the last time that you changed your oil? If you have dirty oil vs. new clean oil there will be a couple of whp difference...

 

Each car is different...there could have been different contributing factors for how the car dynoes, and you install the exact same parts in 2 cars you will not get the same numbers, each car responds a little differently to modifications...

1. new plugs vs. old plugs
2. CA 91 octane vs 93-94 elsewhere
3. new oil vs old oil
4. water temp
5. clogged cat
6. dirty fuel filter
7. dirty injectors
8. bad port and polish

Any one of these could result in a slightly different reading...a couple of them together would highly skew your results.

 

If you think that he did such a bad job on the tuning, just go somewhere else and see if another tuner can extract more HP out of your car without changing any of the parts...if they can, good for them.

Lawrence is well know to tell you exactly how he feels about your car and what he can and can't do to the car...he wont sugar coat it for you...didn't he guess what cams you had in the car after a run? I went down there one day when I had TODA spec B's and a PowerFC...we played with it for ~45 minutes...he told me that the car was at the maximum for what I wanted(flat torque curve) I decided to stay on the dyno and see what type of adjustments I could do...spent another 1 1/2 hours tuning cam gears and advancing the ignition curve 5 degrees...didn't gain a thing and wasted money when I should have trusted the person that does it for a living.

Could we see a copy of your plot...you continue to say how horrible your experience was, but don't give us any proof of where you started at and where you finished at.

Every dyno shop that I have been to starts the clock the minute that your car is on the lift, then put into the air, then strapped down....until your car rolls off the dyno you're being charged(and I've been to a few different places).

Austin - who really hates this baseless internet bashing

P.S. - I have ~35 runs on the dyno at DynoSpot, and over 120 at Comptech(some tuning and some part testing)

 

that dc header is really holding you back, go with at least a jdm 4-1, get ballsey and go with a Toda for more money. Also get an ecu conversion adapter harness to run a reprogrammed obd1 vtec ecu.

Greg

 

And your point is? Actually thats exactly what your getting charged for. The second they stop other work and grab your keys, your on their time. Lawrence is actually pretty good in the fact that he will tune a car in under 1hr 90% of the time. However the base cost for tuning is 1 full hr, then your charged every 15min after that first hr. He normally trys to tune a car in under 1hr, not to jip you of your time, but acutally to get the tuning done before the heat starts to effect the engine and before any unnesssary wear is put on the car for no reason. Why keep running the hell out of the car to wear on the motor and have heat start to hurt performance to just give the customer his "full" 1hr of tuning. You should actually thank him for being able to tune the car in as few runs as possible. However you seem to be the prime canidate for the dyno tuner cash cow. IE: your a customer who wants to see peak numbers, as well as getting his full 1hr or more to get the "best" power no matter how long it may go on. What most tuners (not Lawrence) will do is keep dynoing the car over and over. They will find the "G spot" of the cars power, yet will keep going a little past it or under it to just keep the customer wanting more dyno runs. Next thing you know (10+runs later) and 1hr or more later is that all you got was 1 or 2whp more then the tuner got after the 2nd-3rd run. lol

Sounds you me like you need to pay Thunder Alley, etc... a visit where they can and probally will play that game and will in the end give you a STD power print out which will show you a extreamly high peak power.
Here's a good link to what you will probally get elsewhere which seems to be what your looking for:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=248067

Overall just go elsewhere with your business. DSR is probally way to busy to deal with this BS. Oh yeah as for your 28mins or so of dynoing, try this out:
10mins loading the car and setting the car up.
6mins or so installing a cut valve cover which was loaned to you as a favor.
28mins of dyno testing.
6mins removal cut valve cover which was loaned to you as a favor.
10mins unloading the car.

Add it up.

Or here I'll do that for you: 10+6+28+6+10= 60min or 1hr
Exactly what you were charged for.

Oh yeah lastly yes Kenji he was using a GSR manafold which was explained to him that its the cause for the mild and bumpy low-mid range.





[Modified by Rboosted717, 11:58 AM 8/8/2002]

 

I am running my stock Intake Manifold and I know that is killing me, along with the stock exhaust I'm running on.

I'll try goin to the ATP one and see what I get under cooler conditions.

 

I don't know about the intake manifold. But I would say that the stock exhaust is definitely killing you. Get rid of that thing ASAP and you will actually see MUCH better numbers!

 

wanna trade exhausts?