Ported head
CTR cams
? Cam gears
JDM 4-1 header
Stock block

And it produced all this power, could someone please help me figure the timing, ecu, anything else. I take it the owners name is Steve. This dyno was borrowed from importreview.com

I would like to hear all discussion, can the JUN package produce these numbers as well, Toda? Is CTR parts the way to go.

Sorry mods, I figured this was the best fourm, better response here. TIA.

 

im sorry but thats really hard to believe

 

::Waves BS flag::

 

i've raced this car b4, i have a JDM GSR w/ ported head and Crower 401's, i took him out, but right as we crossed the line he was on my ***, car is very fast!! and it is indeed a B16


[Modified by slooowDX, 12:46 PM 9/8/2002]

 

Whats so hard to believe? thats not that much power.

 

why dont you read it again, ok?

 

Can you tell me what other modifications are done to the setup. Please. Esp. what ECU he is running, thanks!

 

That sheet claims 189 whp...Thats a little hard to believe with those few mods, I understand he probably has a decent hp gain but I can't accept that he got an extra 60 hp(estimation based upon a 30hp drivetrain loss) with that short mod list being theirs no nitrous or forced induction. Anyone can take a dyno sheet with a decent hp curve and open up adobe and write "(favorite engine goes here), CaMS, iNTaKe, DuaL VtECh's, etc, MAD HP'S YO." IMO of course.


[Modified by 97RedTegGSR, 2:33 AM 9/9/2002]

 

That crossed my mind. However I would think it is credible since importreview does the dyno's in shop. Not too sure though.

 

all i kno is that it was in an EF hatchback, so most likely a PR3/PW0 chipped, not sure on that, i kno he had a GSR head w/ a ported GSR intake manifold, he told me it was stock block, and to take a look at importreviews site, that his was the most HP B16A on the page, car is damn fast for a 1.6

 

I have seen that car run many of times, and I personaly have withnessed the owner putting 87 grade in the car. It ran hard but I havent seen much of him or his freinds latley.

 

peak HP is between 8700 and 9000rpm ... with CTR cams ???

so why did honda make a stock 8400 rev limiter, what is rev limiter of the stock CTR ? why would stock rev limiter be less that where peak power is made ?

LOL

the graph may be real, but the cams are not ... thats my input.

Greg

 

That graph is possible! however, you need to really think about all the other possiblities that could be different. whose is to say that the dyno sheet is not corrected for atmospheric conditions. (what is the temp. outside?) Also if it is adjusted, how much hasthe head been milled?, what type of cams? what ecu programm? (does this car have Individual throttlebodies?)
All said and done this is possible. but I have to doubt that this car made that power with the true claims that are posted on the dyno sheet.

 

Definately a B16 chart. Looks like my old B16 engine chart but carries the hp much further. Same torque, stock block/compression. I made 177 whp and 113 wtq with stock block/Toda B cams which peaked @ 8200 rpms.

Something strange though, can't figure how it carried the power so far with just CTR cams. Should have run out of breath around 8200-8400 no matter what head work it had.

 

ti valves, oversized at that, ti retainers, perfect porting, cc reshaping possibly...all tuned properly, could indeed fall under such vague desriptions such as "ported head" and ctr cams...alot of ti in the head mixed with a lot of elbowgrease proting and tune it, your sure to make some nice numbers...

 

nope ... the two main components that really determines where the peak HP point is, are header(listed was JDM 4-1 which is stock on the CTR) and camshafts (listed was CTR cams) ... to move the peak HP point from around 7800rpm stock to 8800 rpm what is shown on that dyno means that something was changed besides headwork.

compression is also an important factor too, but the motor is claimed as stock, unless that claim is false ...

Oh, much bigger Toda cams generally peak at less rpm 8200 than the chart at 8800 ... I smell something

I'm also not doubting that the chart is real, I think the chart is real, I think what the list of mods are is whats not real ...

Greg


[Modified by CHEETAH, 8:37 PM 9/12/2002]

 

Its a B16A, they can make high hp, but no torque. The key is that the torque
curve is flat. Depending on what was done to the head its entirely possible.
I know someone with a STOCK BLOCK B16A with a VERY WELL PORTED HEAD
that makes 200hp and 110lbft of torque on STOCK ITR CAMS. You know why?
He makes 110lbft from 6000-9500rpm. Thats what a B16A does, it makes
jack for torque but carries it out FAR.

 

I have seen this car run. It is fast for a b16a. Stock block ported GSR head. He recently sold the setup. Here is a link to more details on it.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=242632

 

lightweight valvetrain components increase rev potential and proper porting, coupled with capable cams such as ctr cams, with tuning, can increase power @ high revs such as this example.

the motor is not claimed as stock, the block (bottom end) is. if he has any cc work or at the very least, milling done, his head work alone can change his compression numbers on that stock block dramatically...about the "bigger" toda cams having a lower functional redline, they are not necessarily top-end cams, they are mid-range cams designed for road-racing, this package is not designed for mid-range...




[Modified by builthatch, 4:40 PM 9/12/2002]

 

it said stock block. Doesn't mean bottom end is stock. He could have had the crank lightened and the whole rotating assembly balanced. Who knows what the compression was. Or what rods he was running. Also, i know that guy said he saw him putting 87 in but for when the dyno was run he could have been on race gas and the engine optimized for that and tuned with Hondata. Who knows how much the JDM header was modified, that and he could have been running open header with no exhaust which would help. I think it's possible. I don't know why people say it's B.S. This could be a race motor for all we know. Seems very possible to me. Hell, Roger Foo was getting over 200 hp out of his b16, that had a stock bottem end. But everything up from there was extensively worked.

Very possible indeed!

s

 

Believe it! What so hard about it not to believe??????

 

actually the 20 or so b16a motors I've dyno'd with Toda A, B and C cams all pretty much made flat torque at high rpm which peaked at a little past 8Krpm ... the fact that they are road racing cams is a moot point, I'm speaking from the fact the they claim its a "stock block" wiht CTR cams and JDM 4-1 header which causing peak HP to go from stock 7800rpm to 1Krpm more at 8800rpm ...

As for what Sakai is saying, I beleive but the header pays a big part of high HP ... a JDM 4-1 making peak power 1000 rpm past the stock band of a CTR is very UNBELIEVABLE especially since a CTR pistons has a biger dome and more static compression than this specific motor.

Anyway, I've made many 200+HP b16a motors, just never seen it with CCTR or ITR cams, if in fact it is then more power to them, just hate the fact that this is an internet board and many ppl tend to say things that aren't in fact true, or hold back little details that affect the outcome. Personally I think the headwork included millign the head 30 thousandths of an inch to raise compression but thats claimed as headwork ...

Greg

 

You just pick the wrong fight..............Greg, who eats, sleeps, and ***** Toda, is just a little bit more experienced in this **** than you may expect........

 

Here's my 99 Si plot. Still can't figure how they carried the torque so long, especially with CTR cams. My engine went flat at 8400 rpms with B's.

Spec's are:
Si AEM
Toda Spec B cams
Portflow inner springs
ITR outter springs
Titanium retainers
Toda Cam gears
JDM Mugen 4-1 header
Mugen muffler
Yoshio tuned ECU
Needed a VTEC controller but didn't have one at the dyno






[Modified by TodaSi, 7:35 PM 9/12/2002]

 

And you add the extra 10 hp from the jdm hydro engine .. .your getting pritty close the the claims of that guy .... but the fact that the power is above 8500 is a little suspect