DO YOU THINK THIS IS TRUE?
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 0
From: New York, NY
DO YOU THINK THIS IS TRUE?
Want A Heavy Shift ****. How Heavy Are Yours?
Our ***** weigh approximately 105 to 112 grams ... or about 1/4 pound (4 oz.) as noted. They are a little heavier than many factory *****, but are not designed or marketed as a heavy aftermarket ****. We do not agree with the current fad of having extremely heavy shift ***** that weigh a pound or more. We feel these are potentially dangerous and bad for transmissions, and we WILL NOT sell ***** this heavy. Extremely heavy ***** can possibly close the gap between the shifter rail and the gears, causing damage to the gears in much the same way as the bad habit some drivers have of resting their hands on the shift ***** constantly. When the gap closes, the transmission fluid can no longer lubricate these parts. Really heavy ***** also run the risk of bending shift forks by creating too much leverage when shifted aggressively. Lastly, we feel that excessively heavy ***** can dampen out vibrations so well due to their mass, that the driver receives little useful information from the transmission. You can literally grind your gears to death and not even know it -- until it's too late.
some1 wrote that back to me.. is it
?
what does every1 else think?
Our ***** weigh approximately 105 to 112 grams ... or about 1/4 pound (4 oz.) as noted. They are a little heavier than many factory *****, but are not designed or marketed as a heavy aftermarket ****. We do not agree with the current fad of having extremely heavy shift ***** that weigh a pound or more. We feel these are potentially dangerous and bad for transmissions, and we WILL NOT sell ***** this heavy. Extremely heavy ***** can possibly close the gap between the shifter rail and the gears, causing damage to the gears in much the same way as the bad habit some drivers have of resting their hands on the shift ***** constantly. When the gap closes, the transmission fluid can no longer lubricate these parts. Really heavy ***** also run the risk of bending shift forks by creating too much leverage when shifted aggressively. Lastly, we feel that excessively heavy ***** can dampen out vibrations so well due to their mass, that the driver receives little useful information from the transmission. You can literally grind your gears to death and not even know it -- until it's too late.
some1 wrote that back to me.. is it
?what does every1 else think?
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Re: (Swipe'd)
He is talking about inline transmission... but for honda's... it wouldnt matter. The cables do all the work. The honda shifter sits on bushings lol not on metal shifter rail he is talking about. Thats for transmissions who'se shifter sits Inside the transmission. 
But his claim is true. People who have the bad habit of resting their hands on their shifter tends to damage it like that as well... but like i said... for inline transmissions only. So... what kind of shift **** you buying?
But his claim is true. People who have the bad habit of resting their hands on their shifter tends to damage it like that as well... but like i said... for inline transmissions only. So... what kind of shift **** you buying?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 2
From: Canada
total bs. more leverage??? wtf so what happens if you have a heavy hand or are just a strong guy, obviously you can still be gentle with the stupid shifter.
that was the biggest croc of **** i've seen in quite some time
that was the biggest croc of **** i've seen in quite some time
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Mercersburg, PA, USA
Re: (Swipe'd)
i have to disagree with the statement that only inline transmissions can be damaged by having your hand on the shifter. This being said the shifter is not in fact in the trans of course but it is linked by shift linkages. So if your hand is resting on the shifter you will be advertly pushing against the shift linkage into the trans and possibly pushing the shift fork into the synchronizer sleeve which could prematurely wear syncros and shift forks. This being said i dont think that a heavy or weighted shift **** could cause either of these problems.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Re: (Swipe'd)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Swipe’d »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hahaa thnx that does make much more sense, inline being like a sr20 transmisssion?
and wouldnt u like to kno
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes... Like SR20 transmissions... any motor that is longitudinal.
And for 1kleenef: For Hondas... your right, it sits on linkages... but it goes before that... it sits on bushings. But even with that, only 1 linkage is really doing the work... the other is just a stabilizer. Then the second is the one that shifts the transmission, which is held by a wrist pin and has a hinge. But besides the point... when you are resting your hand on ur Honda shifter... ur just pressing against the bushing... which is also held up by 2 12mm bolts. So the only thing you can really screw up are the bushings and the bolts... but definitely not the transmission. Pushing down wouldnt stress the trans either simply bc of that hinge.
Modified by nam3less at 9:35 PM 3/3/2008
and wouldnt u like to kno
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes... Like SR20 transmissions... any motor that is longitudinal.
And for 1kleenef: For Hondas... your right, it sits on linkages... but it goes before that... it sits on bushings. But even with that, only 1 linkage is really doing the work... the other is just a stabilizer. Then the second is the one that shifts the transmission, which is held by a wrist pin and has a hinge. But besides the point... when you are resting your hand on ur Honda shifter... ur just pressing against the bushing... which is also held up by 2 12mm bolts. So the only thing you can really screw up are the bushings and the bolts... but definitely not the transmission. Pushing down wouldnt stress the trans either simply bc of that hinge.
Modified by nam3less at 9:35 PM 3/3/2008
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
From: Birthplace of Rust, Michigan, USA
The issue with resting your hand on the shifter isn't one of vertical pressure. It's the slight movement of the shift lever forward or backwards and the resulting pressure placed on the internals due to the shift forks moving ever so slightly towards a gear change. This can engage synchros and cause premature wear.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Mercersburg, PA, USA
Re: (sph33r)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sph33r »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The issue with resting your hand on the shifter isn't one of vertical pressure. It's the slight movement of the shift lever forward or backwards and the resulting pressure placed on the internals due to the shift forks moving ever so slightly towards a gear change. This can engage synchros and cause premature wear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
very true and it can wear out parts of the shift fork in the process by having it rubbing against the syncro sleeve which is still turning with the trans
very true and it can wear out parts of the shift fork in the process by having it rubbing against the syncro sleeve which is still turning with the trans
Banned
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: strathcedar, nsw, australia
Re: (nam3less)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nam3less »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But even with that, only 1 linkage is really doing the work... the other is just a stabilizer. Then the second is the one that shifts the transmission, which is held by a wrist pin and has a hinge. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Both cables are involved in 'shifting', not just one, and neither "link" is a "stabilizer" (whatever that means).
One cable controls shifts in the longitudinal plane, i.e. from 1st to neutral to 2nd, or from 3rd to neutral to 4th, or from neutral to 5th, or from neutral to reverse.
The other cable is to do with shifts that involve lateral movement in neutral through the gate, i.e. moving laterally from the '1st / 2nd' plane to the '3rd / 4th' plane, or to the '5th / reverse' plane.
The shifter lever pushes / pulls directly on the cable involved with shifting in the longitudinal planes (1st to 2nd etc), but is also attached to a 'crank' that transposes lateral lever movement into the longitudinal motion needed to push / pull on the cable that is involved in moving between the shifting planes (i.e. lateral movement in neutral).
Heavy *****, hmm. Never thought about this before. A heavy **** could cause greater loadings into the gearbox with shifter lever vibration, and when shifting fast it's inertia (higher than a lighter ****) could cause greater than intended loadings to be imparted into the the shift forks when the fork reaches the end of the synchro sleeve travel. It might also contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear when substantial vibration is present.
I'm not sure how significant any of this actually might be, but I wouldn't fit a heavy **** if there's any increased risk. Besides, a heavy **** will make the car slower...
But even with that, only 1 linkage is really doing the work... the other is just a stabilizer. Then the second is the one that shifts the transmission, which is held by a wrist pin and has a hinge. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Both cables are involved in 'shifting', not just one, and neither "link" is a "stabilizer" (whatever that means).
One cable controls shifts in the longitudinal plane, i.e. from 1st to neutral to 2nd, or from 3rd to neutral to 4th, or from neutral to 5th, or from neutral to reverse.
The other cable is to do with shifts that involve lateral movement in neutral through the gate, i.e. moving laterally from the '1st / 2nd' plane to the '3rd / 4th' plane, or to the '5th / reverse' plane.
The shifter lever pushes / pulls directly on the cable involved with shifting in the longitudinal planes (1st to 2nd etc), but is also attached to a 'crank' that transposes lateral lever movement into the longitudinal motion needed to push / pull on the cable that is involved in moving between the shifting planes (i.e. lateral movement in neutral).
Heavy *****, hmm. Never thought about this before. A heavy **** could cause greater loadings into the gearbox with shifter lever vibration, and when shifting fast it's inertia (higher than a lighter ****) could cause greater than intended loadings to be imparted into the the shift forks when the fork reaches the end of the synchro sleeve travel. It might also contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear when substantial vibration is present.
I'm not sure how significant any of this actually might be, but I wouldn't fit a heavy **** if there's any increased risk. Besides, a heavy **** will make the car slower...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
From: Not in a Submarine.
Re: (johnlear)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Swipe’d »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok so wha about the heavy shift ****? we answered the hand on the shifter than...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I use a 460g(Roughly 1.01lb) TWM performance shift ****, and to date have had zero ill effects on my transmission. The weight of the **** is not enough to "push" or ride on the transmission to produce any ill effects, as far as I am concerned. This shift **** has been on both Cable and Rod shifted transmissions.
As far as the heavier **** having an effect on the impact of the actual shifting motion, it's relatively easy to calculate the force being generated by a fixed mass. You can use F=m*a to get a general idea of everything. This is all assuming my brain is in correct working order to contemplate all of this, I haven't used this formula since High-School, heh.
**** A = 100g (0.2204lb)
**** B = 450g (1.0141lb)
Lets say, when you shift you can reach a maximum velocity of 20mph at the final stopping point in the throw of your shift. This would give us enough to calculate the force of the shift ***** of different weights. This is simply for the weight of the **** shifting, not the weight of your arm connected to the ****. If you want to calculate that figure out the weight of your arm and add it to the weight of the shift ****. Everyone is different so this calculation is going to be simplified.
**** A; F = 0.2204lb x 20mph = 4.408lbs of Force.
**** B; F = 1.0141lb x 20mph = 20.282lbs of Force.
Once again...this is on top of the weight of your arm, and not calculating how hard you shift, etc. The point here is that people of all different sizes and weights drive manual vehicles. They all have different weight arms and if all of those arms shift the same stock shift **** the force of the shift will be different. The difference in the two shift ***** is negligible as far as forces acting on the transmission are concerned WHILE shifting. So this would almost completely negate the forces the **** put on the transmission while it is simply resting in gear.
Want a heavy ****? Go with TWM Performance.
-Froth
I use a 460g(Roughly 1.01lb) TWM performance shift ****, and to date have had zero ill effects on my transmission. The weight of the **** is not enough to "push" or ride on the transmission to produce any ill effects, as far as I am concerned. This shift **** has been on both Cable and Rod shifted transmissions.
As far as the heavier **** having an effect on the impact of the actual shifting motion, it's relatively easy to calculate the force being generated by a fixed mass. You can use F=m*a to get a general idea of everything. This is all assuming my brain is in correct working order to contemplate all of this, I haven't used this formula since High-School, heh.
**** A = 100g (0.2204lb)
**** B = 450g (1.0141lb)
Lets say, when you shift you can reach a maximum velocity of 20mph at the final stopping point in the throw of your shift. This would give us enough to calculate the force of the shift ***** of different weights. This is simply for the weight of the **** shifting, not the weight of your arm connected to the ****. If you want to calculate that figure out the weight of your arm and add it to the weight of the shift ****. Everyone is different so this calculation is going to be simplified.
**** A; F = 0.2204lb x 20mph = 4.408lbs of Force.
**** B; F = 1.0141lb x 20mph = 20.282lbs of Force.
Once again...this is on top of the weight of your arm, and not calculating how hard you shift, etc. The point here is that people of all different sizes and weights drive manual vehicles. They all have different weight arms and if all of those arms shift the same stock shift **** the force of the shift will be different. The difference in the two shift ***** is negligible as far as forces acting on the transmission are concerned WHILE shifting. So this would almost completely negate the forces the **** put on the transmission while it is simply resting in gear.
Want a heavy ****? Go with TWM Performance.
-Froth
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Re: (johnlear)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnlear »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Both cables are involved in 'shifting', not just one, and neither "link" is a "stabilizer" (whatever that means).
One cable controls shifts in the longitudinal plane, i.e. from 1st to neutral to 2nd, or from 3rd to neutral to 4th, or from neutral to 5th, or from neutral to reverse.
The other cable is to do with shifts that involve lateral movement in neutral through the gate, i.e. moving laterally from the '1st / 2nd' plane to the '3rd / 4th' plane, or to the '5th / reverse' plane.
The shifter lever pushes / pulls directly on the cable involved with shifting in the longitudinal planes (1st to 2nd etc), but is also attached to a 'crank' that transposes lateral lever movement into the longitudinal motion needed to push / pull on the cable that is involved in moving between the shifting planes (i.e. lateral movement in neutral).
Heavy *****, hmm. Never thought about this before. A heavy **** could cause greater loadings into the gearbox with shifter lever vibration, and when shifting fast it's inertia (higher than a lighter ****) could cause greater than intended loadings to be imparted into the the shift forks when the fork reaches the end of the synchro sleeve travel. It might also contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear when substantial vibration is present.
I'm not sure how significant any of this actually might be, but I wouldn't fit a heavy **** if there's any increased risk. Besides, a heavy **** will make the car slower...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I said linkages for a reason... there are 2 different types honda uses for their transmissions. Cable (h22 transmissions... K20 transmissions etc..) and Linkages (B series and D series transmissions). I was gearing towards shift linkages which would be the only type that MIGHT (seeing and understanding sph33r's comment) affect anything in the transmission (And if i remember correctly, one of those 2 linkages... are a stabilizer only *yes.. it exists*... simply because you bolt it up onto the transmission with a 12mm bolt... it doesnt move... it doesnt do anything... just linked to the trans to stabilize the other linkages that does the shifting) simply because with a heavy shift ****.... or a person laying their hand on to the shifter... with a cable type, your just putting weight on plastic. Which makes the cable type not in relevant with swipe'd initial question.
Can you also further explain how a heavier shift **** can cause shift lever vibrations? And how this vibration can contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear... especially with a cable type?
Swipe'd: As for the shiftknob... no one will make a heavy a** shift **** that can compensate for the weight of a hand on a shifter. And I still stand to my original statement, that it wont matter... and if it does... it would be very very very (etc...) minimal... if any. So I say... go buy you shift ****.. THAT YOU REFUSE TO LET US KNOW ABOUT! =P
Both cables are involved in 'shifting', not just one, and neither "link" is a "stabilizer" (whatever that means).
One cable controls shifts in the longitudinal plane, i.e. from 1st to neutral to 2nd, or from 3rd to neutral to 4th, or from neutral to 5th, or from neutral to reverse.
The other cable is to do with shifts that involve lateral movement in neutral through the gate, i.e. moving laterally from the '1st / 2nd' plane to the '3rd / 4th' plane, or to the '5th / reverse' plane.
The shifter lever pushes / pulls directly on the cable involved with shifting in the longitudinal planes (1st to 2nd etc), but is also attached to a 'crank' that transposes lateral lever movement into the longitudinal motion needed to push / pull on the cable that is involved in moving between the shifting planes (i.e. lateral movement in neutral).
Heavy *****, hmm. Never thought about this before. A heavy **** could cause greater loadings into the gearbox with shifter lever vibration, and when shifting fast it's inertia (higher than a lighter ****) could cause greater than intended loadings to be imparted into the the shift forks when the fork reaches the end of the synchro sleeve travel. It might also contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear when substantial vibration is present.
I'm not sure how significant any of this actually might be, but I wouldn't fit a heavy **** if there's any increased risk. Besides, a heavy **** will make the car slower...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I said linkages for a reason... there are 2 different types honda uses for their transmissions. Cable (h22 transmissions... K20 transmissions etc..) and Linkages (B series and D series transmissions). I was gearing towards shift linkages which would be the only type that MIGHT (seeing and understanding sph33r's comment) affect anything in the transmission (And if i remember correctly, one of those 2 linkages... are a stabilizer only *yes.. it exists*... simply because you bolt it up onto the transmission with a 12mm bolt... it doesnt move... it doesnt do anything... just linked to the trans to stabilize the other linkages that does the shifting) simply because with a heavy shift ****.... or a person laying their hand on to the shifter... with a cable type, your just putting weight on plastic. Which makes the cable type not in relevant with swipe'd initial question.
Can you also further explain how a heavier shift **** can cause shift lever vibrations? And how this vibration can contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear... especially with a cable type?
Swipe'd: As for the shiftknob... no one will make a heavy a** shift **** that can compensate for the weight of a hand on a shifter. And I still stand to my original statement, that it wont matter... and if it does... it would be very very very (etc...) minimal... if any. So I say... go buy you shift ****.. THAT YOU REFUSE TO LET US KNOW ABOUT! =P
Banned
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: strathcedar, nsw, australia
Re: (nam3less)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nam3less »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I said linkages for a reason... there are 2 different types honda uses for their transmissions. Cable (h22 transmissions... K20 transmissions etc..) and Linkages (B series and D series transmissions). </TD></TR></TABLE>
My error then. For some reason I thought you meant a cable selector.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nam3less »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you also further explain how a heavier shift **** can cause shift lever vibrations? And how this vibration can contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear... especially with a cable type? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't mean that a heavy shift **** would be the cause of vibration, but could posssibly impart increased vibratory loadings into the gearbox if vibration existed. Such vibration might be present on rough roads with a stiffer suspension set up for instance. In any case I'd think any affect on wear would be likely to be minimal at most.
I've driven more than one car that had a tendency to jump out of gear when the car hit a bump or on rough roads. The worst was a BMC Mini that had to be held in second gear on rough roads or if you knew you were going to hit a bump. If the mass of the gear stick is great enough then when that mass is vibrated or 'shocked' by a bump then it can impart a force through the linkage that causes the box to fall out of gear (probably associated with weak springs or worn keys etc in the synchro assembly). The gear stick mass will be greater with a heavy ****.
My error then. For some reason I thought you meant a cable selector.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nam3less »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you also further explain how a heavier shift **** can cause shift lever vibrations? And how this vibration can contribute to the gearbox jumping out of gear... especially with a cable type? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't mean that a heavy shift **** would be the cause of vibration, but could posssibly impart increased vibratory loadings into the gearbox if vibration existed. Such vibration might be present on rough roads with a stiffer suspension set up for instance. In any case I'd think any affect on wear would be likely to be minimal at most.
I've driven more than one car that had a tendency to jump out of gear when the car hit a bump or on rough roads. The worst was a BMC Mini that had to be held in second gear on rough roads or if you knew you were going to hit a bump. If the mass of the gear stick is great enough then when that mass is vibrated or 'shocked' by a bump then it can impart a force through the linkage that causes the box to fall out of gear (probably associated with weak springs or worn keys etc in the synchro assembly). The gear stick mass will be greater with a heavy ****.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Re: (johnlear)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnlear »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My error then. For some reason I thought you meant a cable selector.
I didn't mean that a heavy shift **** would be the cause of vibration, but could posssibly impart increased vibratory loadings into the gearbox if vibration existed. Such vibration might be present on rough roads with a stiffer suspension set up for instance. In any case I'd think any affect on wear would be likely to be minimal at most.
I've driven more than one car that had a tendency to jump out of gear when the car hit a bump or on rough roads. The worst was a BMC Mini that had to be held in second gear on rough roads or if you knew you were going to hit a bump. If the mass of the gear stick is great enough then when that mass is vibrated or 'shocked' by a bump then it can impart a force through the linkage that causes the box to fall out of gear (probably associated with weak springs or worn keys etc in the synchro assembly). The gear stick mass will be greater with a heavy ****.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hmmm i see ur point... but would u agree that this wouldnt be possible w/ a cable? Maybe with the shift linkages? but there are bushings that can absorb that vibration no? hrmm.... a thinker.
My error then. For some reason I thought you meant a cable selector.
I didn't mean that a heavy shift **** would be the cause of vibration, but could posssibly impart increased vibratory loadings into the gearbox if vibration existed. Such vibration might be present on rough roads with a stiffer suspension set up for instance. In any case I'd think any affect on wear would be likely to be minimal at most.
I've driven more than one car that had a tendency to jump out of gear when the car hit a bump or on rough roads. The worst was a BMC Mini that had to be held in second gear on rough roads or if you knew you were going to hit a bump. If the mass of the gear stick is great enough then when that mass is vibrated or 'shocked' by a bump then it can impart a force through the linkage that causes the box to fall out of gear (probably associated with weak springs or worn keys etc in the synchro assembly). The gear stick mass will be greater with a heavy ****.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
hmmm i see ur point... but would u agree that this wouldnt be possible w/ a cable? Maybe with the shift linkages? but there are bushings that can absorb that vibration no? hrmm.... a thinker.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MrHeeltoe
Performance
11
Jul 3, 2010 02:06 PM
joemama
Honda / Acura
1
May 24, 2001 05:01 PM