ctr pistons with thicker head gasket
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Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (eghead)
http://www.bojangs.com/calculator/
itll give you an idea of what you're asking
[Modified by Cartek-Tuning, 7:22 PM 1/29/2003]
itll give you an idea of what you're asking
[Modified by Cartek-Tuning, 7:22 PM 1/29/2003]
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Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (Cartek-Tuning)
i know this is a old thread but i am wondering about this, people say u need cam gears along with this, and ive also heard that thicker headgasket can become a weak point, is this true?
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Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (igotyofire)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by igotyofire »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know this is a old thread but i am wondering about this, people say u need cam gears along with this, and ive also heard that thicker headgasket can become a weak point, is this true?</TD></TR></TABLE>
"Greddy and HKS also sell thick 2mm or sometimes even greater head gaskets for the purpose of lowering the compression radtio for a turbo kit or without spending money on special pistons.
Although this is a cheap way to lower compression, it is no the best way to do so. A thicker head gasket is more likely to blow out because there is more surface area around the bore for detonation pressure to impinge upon.
A thick head gasket also makes the cylinder head's quench areas ineffective, increasing the cylinders's propensity to detonate more then the suggested reduction of the compression the head gakests would seemingly indicate.
A motor that has the compression ratio reduced to 8.5:1 via a thick head gasket may have a detonation of a 9:1 compression motor due to the loss of quench."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
"Greddy and HKS also sell thick 2mm or sometimes even greater head gaskets for the purpose of lowering the compression radtio for a turbo kit or without spending money on special pistons.
Although this is a cheap way to lower compression, it is no the best way to do so. A thicker head gasket is more likely to blow out because there is more surface area around the bore for detonation pressure to impinge upon.
A thick head gasket also makes the cylinder head's quench areas ineffective, increasing the cylinders's propensity to detonate more then the suggested reduction of the compression the head gakests would seemingly indicate.
A motor that has the compression ratio reduced to 8.5:1 via a thick head gasket may have a detonation of a 9:1 compression motor due to the loss of quench."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
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Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (8psiover)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 8psiover »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"Greddy and HKS also sell thick 2mm or sometimes even greater head gaskets for the purpose of lowering the compression radtio for a turbo kit or without spending money on special pistons.
Although this is a cheap way to lower compression, it is no the best way to do so. A thicker head gasket is more likely to blow out because there is more surface area around the bore for detonation pressure to impinge upon.
A thick head gasket also makes the cylinder head's quench areas ineffective, increasing the cylinders's propensity to detonate more then the suggested reduction of the compression the head gakests would seemingly indicate.
A motor that has the compression ratio reduced to 8.5:1 via a thick head gasket may have a detonation of a 9:1 compression motor due to the loss of quench."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
</TD></TR></TABLE>
from reading your post it almost seems as if honda stock design in the headgasket alot of efforts go into for a reason and it is that size for a reason. Also from your post it almost sounds as if your saying it may be better without regards to compression but for normal engine operating and daily driving vechiles to use a thinner headgasket then one that is thicker then stock. and that is it not the best method to lowering the compression a tad.
well i have a b18c block and i want atleast a 11.5C/R P30s are lil bit low, and CTR's are too high, my pereference is 11.8 and im trying to come with a way to survive in california on 91 octane daily driven. it seems like a forged piston mite be the only way for me to go, but i was hoping to go with oem cast as forged internals i hear dont last as long.
Also what im wondering im sure anyone is well aware of the CTR piston's Dome hieght and how piston to valve contact clearances arent so great with an aggresive cam, so what im wondering if i do go with a forged piston with compression near that of the CTR's is it going have a huge dome and will i have to worry, claying the motor is smart but i dont have the cams yet for the buildup and i am trying to plan for the future, and right now building as funds permit it.
"Greddy and HKS also sell thick 2mm or sometimes even greater head gaskets for the purpose of lowering the compression radtio for a turbo kit or without spending money on special pistons.
Although this is a cheap way to lower compression, it is no the best way to do so. A thicker head gasket is more likely to blow out because there is more surface area around the bore for detonation pressure to impinge upon.
A thick head gasket also makes the cylinder head's quench areas ineffective, increasing the cylinders's propensity to detonate more then the suggested reduction of the compression the head gakests would seemingly indicate.
A motor that has the compression ratio reduced to 8.5:1 via a thick head gasket may have a detonation of a 9:1 compression motor due to the loss of quench."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
</TD></TR></TABLE>
from reading your post it almost seems as if honda stock design in the headgasket alot of efforts go into for a reason and it is that size for a reason. Also from your post it almost sounds as if your saying it may be better without regards to compression but for normal engine operating and daily driving vechiles to use a thinner headgasket then one that is thicker then stock. and that is it not the best method to lowering the compression a tad.
well i have a b18c block and i want atleast a 11.5C/R P30s are lil bit low, and CTR's are too high, my pereference is 11.8 and im trying to come with a way to survive in california on 91 octane daily driven. it seems like a forged piston mite be the only way for me to go, but i was hoping to go with oem cast as forged internals i hear dont last as long.
Also what im wondering im sure anyone is well aware of the CTR piston's Dome hieght and how piston to valve contact clearances arent so great with an aggresive cam, so what im wondering if i do go with a forged piston with compression near that of the CTR's is it going have a huge dome and will i have to worry, claying the motor is smart but i dont have the cams yet for the buildup and i am trying to plan for the future, and right now building as funds permit it.
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Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (igotyofire)
"For an all-motor, street-driven car, the factory type r pistons are the best bet. this is the us or jdm integra type r piston for the b18c and the Ls vtec frank motor with the jdm civic type r piston for the b16a.
type r pistons are a high-pressure die cast construction. this is the best way to make a cast piston. Since they are cast, they are not the best choice for a nitrous-burning motor but they are excellent in all motor applications.
An advantage for cast pistons in a daily driver sort of car is that they can use a much tighter piston-to-wall clearance. this makes for an engine that is quieter and burns less oil. Cast pistons are also easier on the cylinder walls.
Type R pistons have a black, dry, film lubricant coating on the skirts for longer wear and less friction as well as additional oil holes in the ring grooves for better high rpm oil control. Type-r pistons also have holes in the wrist pins bosses to improve wrist pin oiling.
As an interesting and useful fact, all of the b-series motors have the same compression height, so the pistons interchange.
the integra type-r pison is available in two versions: the p73-00 jdm version and the p73-a0 US market version. the difference between the two is that the jdm piston has a slightly taller dome, which gives about 0.2 of a point higher compression.
The us type-r A0 piston is the piston to use in the larger displacement ls frank motor as it will yield approximately 11:1 compression with this combo due to its lower dome. the jdm 00 piston is the piston of choice for the b18c as it will yield about 11:1 in this combo.
the jdm civic type r or pct piston has the highest dome of all the type-r pistons to get 11:1 compresssion out of the smaller b16 motor. it is not recommmended that this piston be installed in a b18c or a b18b or a frank motor as the compression ratio will end up being unstreetable, close to 12:1. this compession is good for mild race application with racing fuel and is in fact a popular combo for hybrid civics raced in nasa's pttc road racing class."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
type r pistons are a high-pressure die cast construction. this is the best way to make a cast piston. Since they are cast, they are not the best choice for a nitrous-burning motor but they are excellent in all motor applications.
An advantage for cast pistons in a daily driver sort of car is that they can use a much tighter piston-to-wall clearance. this makes for an engine that is quieter and burns less oil. Cast pistons are also easier on the cylinder walls.
Type R pistons have a black, dry, film lubricant coating on the skirts for longer wear and less friction as well as additional oil holes in the ring grooves for better high rpm oil control. Type-r pistons also have holes in the wrist pins bosses to improve wrist pin oiling.
As an interesting and useful fact, all of the b-series motors have the same compression height, so the pistons interchange.
the integra type-r pison is available in two versions: the p73-00 jdm version and the p73-a0 US market version. the difference between the two is that the jdm piston has a slightly taller dome, which gives about 0.2 of a point higher compression.
The us type-r A0 piston is the piston to use in the larger displacement ls frank motor as it will yield approximately 11:1 compression with this combo due to its lower dome. the jdm 00 piston is the piston of choice for the b18c as it will yield about 11:1 in this combo.
the jdm civic type r or pct piston has the highest dome of all the type-r pistons to get 11:1 compresssion out of the smaller b16 motor. it is not recommmended that this piston be installed in a b18c or a b18b or a frank motor as the compression ratio will end up being unstreetable, close to 12:1. this compession is good for mild race application with racing fuel and is in fact a popular combo for hybrid civics raced in nasa's pttc road racing class."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
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Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (8psiover)
i appreciate all your good info. i am aware of the oil holes under the piston for the oil squirters, on the R pistons, but the b16 pistons to my knowledge do not have them, since most would say 12 C/R is about unstreetable, what about the JDM p30 piston in a ITR block, that piston will be alot hotter with the higher compression then which it was designed for, reason lacking in the oil cooling holes, but is that a bad thing?
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Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (igotyofire)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by igotyofire »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also what im wondering im sure anyone is well aware of the CTR piston's Dome hieght and how piston to valve contact clearances arent so great with an aggresive cam, so what im wondering if i do go with a forged piston with compression near that of the CTR's is it going have a huge dome and will i have to worry, claying the motor is smart </TD></TR></TABLE>
I am glad I can provide you with information to assist you.
"It must be stressed that milling and cloverleafing the head, in conjunction with pistons, adjustable timing gears and high performance cams, can have a significant impact on engine compression ratio and piston-to-valve clearance. Everything must be checked and confirmed before the engine is run or severe damage can result.
It is important to maintain at least 0.045" of clearance on the intake valve and 0.055" on the exhaust valves. This is the minumum clearance allowed and more is safer. You want at least 0.030" clearance between the piston and any part of the cylinder head also.
When building an engine, unless you are doing a pure stock motor buildup, there are so many combination of heads, pistons and cams posssible on Hondas that you should always verify the piston-to-valve and piston-to-head clearnace during the buildup."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
Also what im wondering im sure anyone is well aware of the CTR piston's Dome hieght and how piston to valve contact clearances arent so great with an aggresive cam, so what im wondering if i do go with a forged piston with compression near that of the CTR's is it going have a huge dome and will i have to worry, claying the motor is smart </TD></TR></TABLE>
I am glad I can provide you with information to assist you.
"It must be stressed that milling and cloverleafing the head, in conjunction with pistons, adjustable timing gears and high performance cams, can have a significant impact on engine compression ratio and piston-to-valve clearance. Everything must be checked and confirmed before the engine is run or severe damage can result.
It is important to maintain at least 0.045" of clearance on the intake valve and 0.055" on the exhaust valves. This is the minumum clearance allowed and more is safer. You want at least 0.030" clearance between the piston and any part of the cylinder head also.
When building an engine, unless you are doing a pure stock motor buildup, there are so many combination of heads, pistons and cams posssible on Hondas that you should always verify the piston-to-valve and piston-to-head clearnace during the buildup."
Honda/Acura Engine Performance - Mike Kojima
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Re: ctr pistons with thicker head gasket (igotyofire)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by igotyofire »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about the JDM p30 piston in a ITR block, that piston will be alot hotter with the higher compression then which it was designed for, reason lacking in the oil cooling holes, but is that a bad thing?</TD></TR></TABLE>
When used within their design parameters factory stock parts will provide a long and reliable life.
When used within their design parameters factory stock parts will provide a long and reliable life.
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