I have a question about a cam install. I have read up on it and the one part that I am not sure of is the part with the actual removal of the camshafts with regards to the timing belt. What exactly are you supposed to do? It looks like most people lift up the camshaft from the distributor end and slide it out of the timing belt. If this is the case then what happens when you put it all back together and you have lost tension on the timing belt? Or vice versa, what if the timing belt tension is so tight you can't get the cam gears + new cams back underneath the belt?

 

When you loosen the tensioner bolt there will be enough slack on the timing belt to slide the belt off the sprocket.

If you don't have Helms factory manual get one. It will be the start of a beautiful relationship.

 

How hard is it to loosed the tensioner bolt? I heard you have to be pretty careful with that thing. Do you HAVE to remove the lower timing belt cover and remove the engine mount to do it?

 

No, you don't have to remove any lower timing covers, just the cover that exposes the camsprockets. It's kind of a biatch if you have both A/C & powersteering components in the way of the belt tensioner bolt. But if you don't, it's pretty easy.

Just get a large 1/2" sized ratchet and a short 14mm socket, peel off the little tensioner bolt round cover, get the socket on the 14mm tensioner bolt nicely, and push down (lefty loosey).
Here's a diagram (ignore the ratchet on the crank, you will have to put where the belt tensioner are is):



[Modified by Katman, 12:54 PM 5/21/2002]

 

here step by step
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/caminstall/cam.html

 

Yeah but the thing that bothers me with that tutorial is the fact that at the end it just says "re-install the timing belt". I know for a fact that there has to be more too it than that.

I am worried that if that tensioner bolt won't give that we are going to strip it. It is going to be a BIATCH to get a socket wrench down there, and get leverage on it.

 

all you need is a 6-point 14mm socket and ratchet. You should have good leverage if you don't have any AC or PS crap in the way. You don't have to completely take your whole timing belt off either (if that's what you're thinking). You just loosen up the tensioner which will allow you to slide the belt off the cam sprockets. Also, if you don't have access to air tools, I suggest you loosen the 14mm sprocket bolt BEFORE you take off the timing belt. It's a bitch loosening the sprocket bolt once the belt has been taken off..

BTW, have you ever loosened up your belt tensioner bolt, at all? if not...don't be scared, the force is with you.



[Modified by Katman, 1:27 PM 5/21/2002]

 

Removing the P/S belt and unbolting the pump (move it out of the way) helps.

I use a swivel head Craftsman ratchet and (as stated) a 6-point 14mm socket.

It may be very tight to remove depending on mileage.

Willis
-who hates working on 99-00 Civic SI timing belt tensioners....

 

No I haven't. That is why I am scared. It is also a car with 80k mile on it, so according to the other post it is probably going to be pretty tight.

Ok ... so I loosen that bolt a little, slip off the timing belt, insert new camshafts, tuck belt back on top of the cam gears/sprockets, and then tighten that bolt again.

If the some goes bad and I strip that bolt, how screwed am I at that point? I know it is going to be on there pretty g00t.

 

strip the tensioner bolt =

easy fix on a RWD kaa... but to repair the messed up area (in the block) = removal of the motor.

It would take a lot of force to strip the bolt... just take your time and use the force.

Will

 

Practial Tip: You have to make sure the 14mm socket is ALL the way on the tensioner bolt and that it does not slip off and strip the bolt when loosening it.

I've stripped the bolt once and a friend of my stripped one his engine and we had to do "surgery" both times with a dremel tool to get the stripped bolt off.

Also when re-installing the timing belt, once you have the belt on crank the main pulley counter-clockwise 4-6 times to center the belt on the sprockets.

 

Ugh ... that can't have been fun. That is what I am worried about. What did you do, just drill the bolt out and replace it?

 

The bolt heads were cut square shape to relieve clamping pressure and then I put a vise-grip plier on it. About a 1.5 hour job for just taking off a stripped bolt.

 

heres a tip im sure ill get flamed for. What I did instead of loosening the tentioner bolt (since it started to strip) was a I just slid the timing belt off to the side but removing the upper half of the cover and I did not loosen the belt. It should slide off pretty easily. To get the belt back on, sometimes you can get it on after the cams are in but what I did (here comes the flame) is I put the sprockets up under the belt first so the cams were at an angle and then i layed them down into place and put the caps on and they were forced to lay down flat once the bolts were tight. that way you dont have to loosen the belt at all but you have to make sure the cams go in strait and once they are in make sure all the TDC marks line up. It might take a few trys to get all the marks lined up.

 

I have actually seen someone else doing that on another website. It certainly seems like a novel approaching to get around that stupid tensioner bolt. IF it works. Here is the problem that I foresee. We both have old Hondas that we are wrenching on, and as you said your tensioner bolt started to give a little. If there was still some slack in the belt, which I can imagine could happen with the install, then you would be forced to use the tensioner bolt and possibly strip it out.

Rocket, that whole thing with cutting it square and then using pliers to get it turning again ... did you just keep unscrewing it until it came out? After that did you just screw another tensioner bolt in? I honestly thing I am going to get faced with that situation from what I have heard.

I am sooo tempted to take this thing to a certified mechanic to get this taken care of, but I really feel like I don't deserve to be part of this hobby if I do that.

 

If you don't feel safe... let certified mechanic take care of it..

Better safe than sorry..

Will
-who hates touching timing belts... but does it anyway

 

Will - what exactly do you do? Are you a mech/master tech or is this just a hobby for you?

Jim- who is asking non-topic related questions.

 

It is a hobby (outside of my real job (non-automotive)) that provides some supplemental income (tax free).

I do not have a shop... but do work on cars in the garage to help the owners/myself.

Will
-who thinks anyone can swap cams if given the right instructions, has the guts to do it, and has the correct tools

 

Yeah ... I need to talk it over with my friend and show him this post before we try it. I have done basic stuff like change oil, change brake pads, fix non-working power window, but this is the one that bothers me. It seems like the biggest pain in the *** in the whole operation is the timing belt.

I remember reading a post on here a while back where this guys adjustable cam gear slipped somehow. A bunch of teeth were broken off. People were telling him that he should have stuff like upgraded cams, cam gears, etc on his care if he did know how to maintain them himself.

Katman said that it is harder to loosen the timing belt tensioner after the belt has been slipped off the cam sprockets ... why is that? Would it be a worthwhile test to try and loosen that thing up first with the belt still on there and see how hard it is to turn?


[Modified by 95GS-R, 6:17 PM 5/22/2002]

 

you could lose a few teeth if you dont use assembly lube on the cams when you install them because they could be hard to turn until oil gets around them.

 

Nope.
I didn't say that.
I said its hard to remove the 14mm bolt that holds the sprocket to the camshaft once the timing belt has been taken off the sprocket(s). You should loosen those 2 particular 14mm camsprocket bolts BEFORE you slide off the timing belt if you're doing all this work manually, with no airtools. Otherwise an airtool will shoot those 14mm bastads right off.

From reading your replies, it looks like you want to learn how to do this cam install. I suggest you let an experience person do this for you, while you watch and take personal notes. It's really not as hard as you think it is...when it comes to the belt tensioner bolt. It's not on THAT tight ya know.


[Modified by Katman, 12:15 PM 5/22/2002]

 

more like kill your head and fu$k up your cams

 

On C-speeds website, it says to rotate the distributor and/or rotor to get the intake cam in correctly. If you do that, won't that mess up your timing? What do you gotta do to make sure the timing doesn't get messed up?

 

Yeah ... you are right there. Problem is I don't know anyone who does this kind of stuff, and most of the people you meet don't want to "help" you with your install for obvious reasons. I also doubt the tech at the local speed shop wants a customer looking over his shoulder. This basically leaves it up to me to figure things out with a little bit of help from you guys.

Eventually I suppose I am going to want to pull the head off, remove pistons etc ... but I haven't really figured out how I am going to learn that stuff yet.

EDIT: Spelling


[Modified by 95GS-R, 11:19 PM 5/22/2002]