90civichbsi

iTrader: (1)

im planning on doing some engine work soon, but i want more torque, so i was looking at building a b20 bottom end. i know the sleeves on a b20 are kinda weak so to run higher compression i would want to resleeve anyway.

what do you guys think, could i bore the b16 out to 2.0 w/ new sleeves and then put high comp pistons lightened rods and crank? or the b20 route?

just give mye your opinions i have looked very thouroughly into the b20 swap

90civichbsi

iTrader: (1)

anyone?

BluntMan

id say do the crvtec!!!! mad torque if you build it right!!!!!

CRX7

you cannot make a b16 2.0 by sleeving alone. check out the compression and displacement calculator at c-speedracing.com

you only really want to go with a 84 to 86 mm bore on a b series block.

get a B18C block and get it sleeved and bored to 84.5mm

10K2HVN

well if your think in 'saving money terms' then i would get a LS block (since your gonna sleeve it anyways) and sleeve and bore to 84~86mm...LS block cheaper then B20 and B18C...for the price of a B20, you can buy a B18B and Sleeves..then just pay a little more to get the sleeves put in.....

0F1Spec

in my opinion, b16 is out of the picture. by boring out to 84mm is not going
to make a b16 2.0l, its not going to change the stroke and you're still using b16 crank....not matter what you do its never a b20 unless u use
deck plate, which will drive up the cost.

so what u got left is a b20 and b18.

if you want to save $, i'd just buy a b18 and dump a vtec head on it.

if you want to sleeved, i'd still buy a b18 and bore it to 84mm and it will
act like a b20 but w/ a bulletproof sleeve. but after hearing all the GE
sleeves sunk, i'm having doubts. i'd try RS or AEBS sleeves but RS is
open deck still. GE has their own "block guard" design and AEBS is closed
deck with drilled holes for coolant....i was told that it might over heat if
you daily drive ur car.

there is really no point to sleeve a b20 to run 2.0l, because b20 is already 2.0l, if
you want 2.0l, buy a b18 and sleeve it, same cost, same thing and strong sleeves. if i were to sleeve a b20, i'd bore it out to 86mm or something.

as for weak sleeves on the b20, as long as you dont run boost (N/A setup) and
keep the CR under 12.5, i dont see a problem with it. peopel who
crack stock sleeves are either running real high CR (like 13:1 or higher) or
is running boost.

a lot of my friends run 12.5:1 on stock sleeves with some CTR or aftermarket
pistons. they never have a problem with it. friends who run turbo w/ stock
sleeves eventually crack their stock sleeves and end up getting the block sleeved.
a friend of mine...hes got GE block and his sleeves drop....

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

sup man!

well I'll give you my thoughts on this because i have looked into this. It is not the most cost-effective route but it'll be somthing no one has
I was thinking about doing this:
1)B16a...... drive it until i get board or blows=135whp & 105tq

2)B16a rebuilt with Toda Stroker kit ($2,100) comes with everthing balanced, super rods, really light toda pistons 81.5mm and rings. R/S ratio will be about the same so your still 9+ REV freindly. it will give you a 1.8l displacement.... drive it for about 50-60k then when your ready rebuild it. =160whp & 125tq

3) This time when you rebuild it, sell the pistons for like $350ish ! Sleeve & bore to 84.5mm or 85mm and get some new pistons for the price you sold yours for! This will yeild about a 2.1 liter of DOHC VTEC woop *** perforamce=180whp & 145+tq

4) if your still borad with that..... REMEMBER you still have a stock head, cams, header, ect.
-jun3
-toda camgear
-valvetrian upgrade
-portflow head
-high compression pistons (11:5 to 12:1) 93octane!
-better than adverage headers(jun-toda-SMSP-hytech)
-Hondata
-Hondata intake manifold gaskets
-ITR intake manifold
-65mm or larger throttle body
-310cc injectors
about 1 hour of tunning and you'll be seeing 230ish whp & 155tq or more.

Like I said before...this is not the most COST EFFECTIVE route to take and is not for everyone. But this is somthing that i would do. Trying to be different is hard so be creative.

This will cost well over 15k but this is my plan is something to be taken slowly as a LONG TERM GOAL. Hope that help. b20vtec would be nice but common and you really don't know what you have seeing that it's not mathamaticlly built/calculated to generate that kinda performace.

or you could sell your b16 and get a B18c. Drive it for awhile then bore it to 84.5mm you'll get a 2.0 vtec!

your choice bro... don't rush into it.


[Modified by Charlie Moua, 8:31 AM 3/28/2003]

mattcxb18

Nice

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE]in my opinion, b16 is out of the picture. by boring out to 84mm is not going
to make a b16 2.0l, its not going to change the stroke and you're still using b16 crank....not matter what you do its never a b20 unless u use
deck plate, which will drive up the cost.

so what u got left is a b20 and b18.

if you want to save $, i'd just buy a b18 and dump a vtec head on it.

there is really no point to sleeve a b20 to run 2.0l, because b20 is already 2.0l, if
you want 2.0l, buy a b18 and sleeve it, same cost, same thing and strong sleeves. if i were to sleeve a b20, i'd bore it out to 86mm or something.
QUOTE]

Don't count the B16a out just yet bro. There are many route to be taken to achive more power out of that awesome motor.

About just throwing a vtec head on a B18a it takes more than that. Many people have fallen into a deeper than though to be "money pit" trying to solve the ls-vtec/B20-vtec issues. If you don't know what your doing.... don't try it unless your having a really good shop build it for you. Also think about the realiablity and the REVs. Sure it can rev to 8,500 just like a B16 but how long will it last(rings and extra wear?) I my honest opionion the ls/b20-vtec motors are really only good motors for track cars seeing that they get rebuild every 20k or so.

I would only sleeve a B20 if i was going turbo or really hardcore all motor. becarefull of sleeveing the B20 to 86mm becuase you could have some seriouse block/head sealing issues. 85mm is the max that i would go for a street motor.

LOL keep the info coming for the endless power of the tiny b16!

ahobbs

For starts. I would not bore a 1.6 liter. The crank just dosen't have enough stroke. Get the b20 sleve it and be on your way. b20 and b18 have the exact same crank.

90civichbsi

iTrader: (1)

hey thanks for all the replys giving me some things to think about,

either way i go whether it be b20, b18, or b16 im going rebuild it w/ streetable higher comp pistons, lightened rods, and balance and lighten the crank

as for the person that asked if i had looked into turbo, since this is my daily driver w/ my budjet like it is a turbo is just too much to worry about right now

keep the post commin

hybridb18

http://www.hstuners.com/news/wmprint.php?ArtID=33

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

if you want a good motor for daily driving and working with what you have than keep the B16a. What don't you like about the B16a? the torque?

Honestly 110tq is a decent amount to get the car moving. install some CTR pistons (11.1cr in stock B16a1 only!) jun3, valvetrain ugrade, cam gears 30minutes of tuning with hondata PR3 and you'll have about 160ish whp! that's a very realist & mild street motor. Who cars if your not fast off the line...be patient and get ready for the freaken vtec + jun3 to kick in

if you want to be fast off the line then you should of started out with a LS or B20. But seeing that you went and got a B16a1 it would only be logicall to assume that your the type of person that is willing to rev to 8k if that's were your power is and your the type who is more concered about the top end power.

don't give up on you B16a1...when only just began to modify it and let alone only swap it on last year.

10K2HVN

tired of all this rubbish!
B16 sell it.
LSVTEC can rev to 9k+ ..besides, name some cams thats will make massive power beond that.
B18C would be the Best Choice but money is a issue to me. But if it werent, then id have a Dart B20 extended deck height with 89mm crank and Titanium Rods! ..Actually id have a Supra TT..or a DC2 with a SuperCharged NSX motor planted behind the drivers seat!

allmtr

actually... i think a 1.8 litter bored out b16 would be a hella fun motor setup. lotsa power and lotsa revability. it doesnt have to be the fastest motor out there... and it probably wont be. all i wanna do is have fun. plus no one really does that. everyone wants to be trendy and get a 2.0 ls/vtec or crvtec....

allmtr

or why not just bore the b20 to 2.2, then put an old b20 prelude crank in there and have a nice 2.4 liters. B24 all the way!!!

0F1Spec

You can make a b16 fast. I have no doubts. But the problem is that its not
cost effective. You are better off to start with a B18. Any B18, even a B18A.

LS/VTEC is more complicated than "dumping a vtec head on a ls block" I know
that. I've done LS/VTECs and as long as you understand what needs to be
modified and how LS/VTEC works. There should not have any problem at all.
With the engine properly built. You can rev it to 9k, like the B16, w/o any problem.

I have a close friend who sleeved the B20 to 87mm and it seals fine. How?
If you know what you're doing...it would be fine. Get the block o-ringed, cometic gasket, copper gasket spray, APR fasteners w/ proper TQ spec/sequence are all you need...

B16 is just too tiny to make power. Once you get the B16 to make lots of
power, it's no longer really a B16 (they're most likely 1.8+).

With a B18 block, it's not hard at all to get 200hp at wheels, even easier
with a B20 block. Not to mention the extra TQ you can gain from the displacement.

Just my opinions tho....

0F1Spec

Explain why would boring the b20 to 2.0 with a old prelude b20 crank would
make the displacement 2.4??????????

10K2HVN

i dont think you can interchange a major piece like that between B and H-series motors...but if you could then that just means that youll have a shittier r/s then the B18a/b, B20 motor! plus the cost of *custom* rods will bump the price..if you gonna spend all that money then just get a turbo with fully built internals!
BOTTOM LINE: -B16 too small! (stroke wise and deck height)
-B18a/b Sleeved and Bored to 84+mm is better the stock B20(period).

TimoneX

I believe he's referring to the crank out of the Gen 3 Prelude(B20a). It's 95mm stroke combined with an 86mm b18 block would work out to 2.2 liters not 2.4 and would have an awful r/s ratio. A b16 can be effective but I'd ditch the 77mm crank and look around for a b17 crank. I'd take an 84mm b16 w/ a b17 crank & rods over a B20 frankenmotor any day of the week. If you sleeved the b16 to 86mm and used a b17 crank you'd have a very nice little 1.9l motor that would still have a 1.62:1 r/s ratio and wouldn't mind revving high.

10K2HVN

HESUS! Just save up a little more sell the block and get a B18*C* block! if will solve all your problems and make you feel better!

TimoneX

That is the best b series block IMO. Hard to go wrong with a B18c.