i need to know all the pros and cons for a B18c, cuz there's like a few b18c's i can get... ones from a type R complete swap... complete front clip... shocks springs everything... for 4g theres just a regular B18c-vtec for 2700 also complete swap from front clip. all have 30k or below mileage.. and a start up warranty..... and also im putting this into my 97 civic DX so i need to know what exactly i need to plan on happening like cons... and whats the best setup for internals for this engine... im going to be doing more research into this, but of coarse i turn to hondatech peepz for more info as much as possible helps...thanx guyz

 

the biggest con with the b18c is you will spend your extra dough converting it to a itr. ITR swap is actually cheaper once all is said and done

 

How much are you looking to spend, how much power are you looking to make, and what goals do you have for the car's performance?

 

well im looking for like an 11sec car... street legal cuz this my daily driver... but should i just get the B18c R for 4g? instead.... is it just that much easier or what? im definately throwing a turbo on there... how much... not sure yet... i still need to save of coarse... probably around 5g im willing to save up 2... but thats cuz i was just planning on spending 2700 but if its easier for the b18bR ....

 

yes you are right!

 

1) a turbocharged Honda isn't going to be street legal in most states.
2) having it run the 1320 reliably in less than 12 seconds will take a good bit more than $5k
3) there is no point whatsoever in spending the extra money on the B18C5 motor.

The Type R motor is specifically designed for naturally aspirated use, and you're not looking to run NA. You need a turbo friendly motor, and you need to decide how much power you are looking to make (reliably and realistically) before you can spec out what you need engine wise. Likely if you are really serious about 11 seconds you'll need a fully built motor anyways, so this is all a pointless thread. There's no reason to buy a swap if you are simply going to throw most of the parts away, just find a good prepped block and go from there.

 

well said

 

Agreed. I'd go with the C1 and decide wether to stay NA or go turbo. Personally if I were going turbo I'd look for an LS motor and save even more $$$s. If you're staying NA then sleeve the B18c1 block to 84.5mm and build from there. Either way I personally would not go with the C5.

 

You can also go LS turbo, but with turbos you really have to have some extra cash when going turbo, its very high maintenance, alot of things can go wrong with turbos, id suggest getting the b18c5 if you can and get a pair of slicks, and you might hit high 12's and the motor will still be stock, then latter you can get a few bolts ons, but if you have like 10gs its possible to build a turbo daily driver that might hit 11's on slicks.

 

well ok... im saving up 5k... one way or another... im getting the b18b correcT? whichever is the type-r.. since u said its already built for that intended purpose... im going to turbo it ... or possibly stay NA if it can indeed run up to 12/11sec car... with it being only NA since NA is better in the long run from what i have figured out. but if i cant... then im most likely to go Turbo...

 

lol! $5k!!..im planning to spend that much JUST on internals on a motor that i already HAVE!!!

 

damn! what motor? well im just planning on saving 5k for the engine... so when i get the engine i can have a few bolt-ons... not turbo or anything...oops sorry miss understood all of u guyz i guess... my bad... no all 2gether in money wise... probably 15k....possibly 20k... but thats a few yrs down the line.. but for the first start off... im planning on getting the engine probably just b18c... cuz its cheaper... and ill be rebuilding it all anyways.. so i figure might as well... i think it will save me money in the long run... but what all am i going to need for this swap. and should i attempt this myself? if i have a week or so o do so... what r some things i might run into... i need to know so i can just buy it all at once.. and then start on it..

 

?with the GSR's B18C1, the Type R motor (engine code B18C5) is a great one but only if you are planning to leave it NA and stock internally. Since you'll probably be playing with compression and going FI later on, the cost difference doesn't justify the B18C5 motor. The only real advantage you'll have is a slightly ported PR3 (B16A) head (which comes on the B18C5), which isn't all that big a deal (especially with FI).


[Modified by texan, 7:08 PM 1/13/2003]

 

With a B18C5, you also get ITR cams and valve gear, ITR intake manifold, ITR throttle body, 11:1 compression (JDM), and the right ECU to run it. It would cost you MUCH more money (than the price difference between a B18C1 and B18C5) and alot of work to add Type-R parts to a B18C1 and get it properly tuned. So if you want a B18C with Type-R parts, the B18C5 is a better choice. The B18C1 would be a better choice if you want to go all-out with the motor and have no use for the improvements of the B18C5 (over the B18C1). But for a quick, reliable daily driver, the B18C5 is actually more cost effective.


[Modified by StorminMatt, 3:06 AM 1/15/2003]

 

What are you talking about? A ported head with turbo is like night and day. Especially when considering the alternative head on the B18c1. I can't believe that you'd think porting a head with a tubo doesn't do enough to be considered. I'd rather have a head ported by the people that designed it because it's a given they know how to make that head flow. I'd give the money for an ITR head with-out cams, but I can't find one with-out cams. I had to settle with a stock PR3.

 

tzir- Have you ever seen the level of "porting" they do to a Type R head? It's 99% just casting flash cleanup and a touch of valve guide/bowl area cleaning, it's not like they're actually making a big change to flow potential. Moreover, a ported head oon a turbo setup is of questionable benefit, money wise, when an extra lb or two of boost more than offsets any power loss (at street boost levels). Finally, a head ported specifically for turbo duty is potentially a big plus, a head cleaned up for 200hp NA duty is not a serious improvement over the stock casting. In other words IMO isn't all that big a deal, like I said. Dollars vs. payoff, it's easy to ignore unless you're really that serious about an extra 10hp.

StorminMatt- I don't disagree with you, but since the thread starter wants to get as close to the 11's as possible, most of what you listed will be of questionable value to that end. He's going to be replacing so many hard parts that for the most part he'd just having bragging rights as to a C5 stamping on the block rather than it saying C1. There are better manifolds, more suitable rods and pistons and more optimized cam profiles available from the aftermarket for his goals than Type R parts.

 

Understandable, but it's port-matched and optimized for the higher rpm range of the B18, and the valves are rotated also. I think for the cost of getting a reliable shop to do heads it's worth it. Not to mention in the end you'll pay less for everything because you switch cams (which have good resale value) and switch to GSR, and still have money left to get some work done to the head. At least if you know where to go. I have a shop that does a beautiful job with the valves & ports for cheap.

Oh the point of better flow isn't to run more boost it's to get the boost to flow so you don't need to use as much to make the same amount of power. More boost = stress on engine that's not needed...
11sec. is easier than you think if you do it right.

 

Why woulnd't you just get a b20, since your already going to be redoing the engine. Buy a VTEC head and whatever else you might need. Then you can pick what tranny you want and your not paying for anything you don't need and you get more displacement.

 

I'd prefer a bored B18C1 myself to a CRVTec but this is another option.

 

well yea... texan im going to go with the C1 seening how i will be replacing everything in there anyways... im going for an 11/12 sec. daily driver so i need the best combination... now the whole port-matching it... and polish, with a turbo 2 me duznt sound bad... ill just run less boost... to save the engine from more damage... i mean i might crank the boost a little for the track or for that weekend night... but not for daily driven.. im looking for like 5-7lbs of boost for daily... but for now it is my daily driver... as soon as i can afford another car for my daily driver... then hell ya ill make more boost into it... and do what i can to up the power, and lower the slip. ya know... but i appreciate all ur guyz inputs.. and thanx for not flaming... it gets pointless to hear flames all the time... but this is going to be my choice engine... i heard wonderful things about it... ive studied a little more about this engine... im still looking for more info on it... like all compression (stock) ratio, whats the gear ratios with the tranny that comes with it or if i should get another closer ratio...

 

Just make sure you have reilable fuel/ignition systems when going FI. Also, it's not that easy to "crank up the boost", properly adjusting the fuel pressure has to go along with it... hehehe

Might purchase the book "MAXIMUM BOOST" by the late Corky Bell... It will get you started with an FI backgound, you will need to help keep it alive.

 

well of coarse... i was planning on AEM fuel set up, with accel or venom fuel inj. and i forgot the brand fuel pump... but a new fuel pump 2... also upgrading the ECU later on for a better mixture... and the apexi vafac....