blah13

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ion_four &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Either way, there are alot of people that believe the need to change oil is a conspiracy cooked up by the automobile manufacturers and oil companies, so keep that in mind </TD></TR></TABLE>

I think is true to some extent, my moms old 84 accord had its oil level checked at every fill up but it was only changed every 7500 miles which is what the manual said so thats what my mom did. It hit just over 260,000 miles before it got totalled while not burning a highly noticable ammount (less than 1qt every change) However she didnt beat on her car like some of us do ours. And I also dont know what oil she used, I know she had honda do it sometimes but not every time.

HookUpsImportTek

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ejprimo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

here are the specs for german syntec:

Color: Green
Pour Point: -61*C
Flash Point: 238*C
Viscosity @ 40*C: 68.5
Viscosity @ 100*C: 12.1
Viscosity @ 150*C: 5.7
HTHS: 3.6
Cold Cranking Vis @ -30*C: 3200
TBN: 10.6
VI: 179


looks like my motor oil beat you in two out of the three categories and its only a 0w-30.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Sorry buddy you got it wrong. Your oil lost and beat Mobil1 0w-40 in one catagory and that was the Flash Point exceeding Mobil1 by 6*C.

You do realize by lower is better in pour point the numbers are listed in with minus symbols in front of them. So the higher the number the lower it is and thus better.

MikeSarr_GSR

comment on the pour point thing: cool, yet next time I am in 40deg below 0 weather here in Orlando, FL I it will be a cold day on this side of hell. I'll be happy to know my oil is working even though my blood is frozen.

as far as the moms accord example:

you also have to understand how a motor will consume oil, how the parts actually do it, how it is operated makes a large part of this picture visible. under stress and change in cylinder pressures, abrupt change in piston speed, constant full throttle high rpm driving under high load, driving up hill towing, WOT_VTEC, etc. all honda motors will lose some oil, just ask S2K owners.
B series also have the same issues. bottom line is:

check it often, change it often. use something that works and stick with it. too much change on bearings is not good. changing brands... on a whim... I wouldnt reccomend it at all. maybe to flush your engine and drive for 10 miles and then add the oil you are used to running, but long term... not reccomended. also be sure your oils can mix if you intend on doing so. most synthetic products are not compatible with conventional oils. thats one up for amsoil. I am not sure about the others, but this is something they made sure to do since alot of people change over and dont want things to all of a sudden fail because the lube isnt compatible and thus wipe bearing surfaces.

HookUpsImportTek

Ive been mixing 2 quarts conventional Mobil 10-30 and synthetic Mobil1 5-30 for about 2 years now. Thats all a synthetic blend is 1/2 convetional and 1/2 synthetic. It is perfectly safe to mix conventional oils and any synthetic. They will blend. Only thing is, try and make sure they are from the same manufacturer to keep close on additive packages and dont very in weight too much.


Modified by HookUpsImportTek at 1:46 PM 6/23/2003

MikeSarr_GSR

yea, that also helps with oil burnoff I am sure. good to know what happens with some people like me when I had my 91 lude with 100K @ 1998... I had switched to Valvoline Synthetic from conv. and it wiped a rod bearing... the engine builder said that he had seen it before. Live and learn...

ejprimo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HookUpsImportTek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sorry buddy you got it wrong. Your oil lost and beat Mobil1 0w-40 in one catagory and that was the Flash Point exceeding Mobil1 by 6*C.

You do realize by lower is better in pour point the numbers are listed in with minus symbols in front of them. So the higher the number the lower it is and thus better.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

check your math buddy. -61 degrees C (castrol) is 7 degrees LOWER than -54 degrees C (mobil1). so, the lower the pour point number is the better. so castrol wins!

MikeSarr_GSR

how about this?

"mine is better than yours"

perform some independent scientific testing relovant to actual driving
conditions and then go barking about whos best. as far as I am concerned
the original poster was simply asking what would be good. best is too
subjective and subject to change. so surrounding all that was posted about
it, conventional oil should be fine for your LS_VTEC. It all depends on what
you want to accomplish. bearings still fail under hard use. the bottom line
is maybe the synthetics may crank a few more ponies on the dyno but that
comes at a cost. oh well, its all a give and take like anything else.

ejprimo

heres some scientific results:

royal purple in 2000 civic : http://theoildrop.server101.co...1;p=1

redline oil in turbo 99 civic si: http://theoildrop.server101.co...00580

redline oil in integra typr R: http://theoildrop.server101.co...00233

honda 5w-20 in 2001 civic : http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000

castrol gtx in 2002 honda sir: http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000


there a ton of used oil analysis featuring hondas or acura in the oil drop fourm. german castrol is new to the US and canada so there will be many upcomming reports. this is as close to independent real world testing as you can get.

the best way to find out if the oil that you are using is good enough is to do an used oil analysis yourself.


Modified by ejprimo at 12:00 PM 6/23/2003

Richard.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ejprimo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heres some scientific results:

royal purple in 2000 civic : http://theoildrop.server101.co...1;p=1

redline oil in turbo 99 civic si: http://theoildrop.server101.co...00580

redline oil in integra typr R: http://theoildrop.server101.co...00233

honda 5w-20 in 2001 civic : http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000

castrol gtx in 2002 honda sir: http://theoildrop.server101.co...00000


there a ton of used oil analysis featuring hondas or acura in the oil drop fourm. german castrol is new to the US and canada so there will be many upcomming reports. this is as close to independent real world testing as you can get.

the best way to find out if the oil that you are using is good enough is to do an used oil analysis yourself.


Modified by ejprimo at 12:00 PM 6/23/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>


good info!
even has charts!

ejprimo

mike, i was never saying that castrol is the best oil. i was merely responding to HookUpsImportTek challenge of finding a oil that shows better numbers than mobil 1 0w-40 in the categories he listed.

HookUpsImportTek

EJ Primo -



Here are the Castrol German Syntec specs for the pour point:

Pour Point: -61*C

Here are the Mobil1 German Synthetic specs for the pour point:

Pour Point: -65*C


Please dont argue this point. These numbers are from the manufacturers website. The Mobil1 formula beats it by 4*C. Thanks for trying.

HookUpsImportTek

Ive been finding that Pennzoil has the best conventional. Here are the numbers:

160/420/-44

I have also verified that its has a strong additive package including Moly. Pretty good numbers for a 5w-30 convetional. If you need something cheap Pennzoil is the way to go. Also after alot of research in my quest to find the cheapest most effective oil change I concluded for price vs filtering vs flow vs construction that the K&N high performance oil filter is the best. So for about $18 bucks you can get a very decent oil change. On the cheap end of things. On the expensive end, Mobil1 0w-40 euro formula and the Mobil1 filter still seem to run the show in all the tests ive seen. If you guys want to go research oil and filters more in depth visit BOBISTHEOILGUY.COM, good reads there.

ejprimo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HookUpsImportTek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EJ Primo -



Here are the Castrol German Syntec specs for the pour point:

Pour Point: -61*C

Here are the Mobil1 German Synthetic specs for the pour point:

Pour Point: -65*C


Please dont argue this point. These numbers are from the manufacturers website. The Mobil1 formula beats it by 4*C. Thanks for trying.</TD></TR></TABLE>

are you serious? you cannot even read the specs that you provided.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HookUpsImportTek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Mobil 1 With SuperSyn™
SAE Grade 0W-40
Product Number 48149-9
API Service
Classification SL/CF
ACEA A3/B3/B4-02
Gravity, API 33.6
Specific Gravity 0.857
&gt;&gt;Pour Point, °C (°F) -54° (-65°)

&gt;&gt;Flash Point, ASTM D 92, °C (°F) 232° (450°)

&gt;&gt;Viscosity Index 185


So we are looking at a 185/450/-65
</TD></TR></TABLE>

lemme see, the pour point read -54* Celcius and -65* Fahrenheit. can u see that. the F* number is surrounded by ( ) as shown by the specs you provided. this is the second time you tried to school me on this thread and both times you came up empty handed. so lets review. -61* C (castrol) has a lower pour point than -54* C (mobil1). remember we are dealing in degrees celcius. thank you for playing.

HookUpsImportTek

yeah, yeah ... So I confused the *C & *F. Thats all OK with me because those Castrol Syntec spec's are completely WRONG. Direct from the manufacturer this morning I received my requested technical data sheet through email on the entire Syntec line. The highest ranking/best performing number wise was the 0w-30 formula and here are the specs in *F format.

Castrol Syntec 0w-30

Viscosity Index: 175
Flash Point: 437
Pour Point : -49


Mobil1 0w-40

Viscosity Index: 185
Flash Point: 450
Pour Point : -65

So my point stands. No synthetic oil currently rates better in standard VI/F/PP tests than Mobil1 0w-40. Still there is always the arguable point of additives (ie. Moly) and what not. Although I have tried to get my hands additive package data for most brands, I keep coming up empty handed. From what I have seen most people only speculate about additives in oil through various unreliable sources. For some really in depth oil info go to bobistheoilguy.com, its helped me out alot and been very interesting in the process. Hope all this madness some what helped the original poster choose which oil he feels is best for his car for whatever reason.





Modified by HookUpsImportTek at 11:27 AM 6/25/2003

eg6ajk

while back in the ITR forum there was a long discussion on types and viscosity of different oils.

Not all oils are the same, different detergent, composition, additive package, viscosity will determine its performance. many assue race oils should be best for high reving motors (is. b-series) but these do not offer enough protection in daily driving condition.

Spoon does not even run synthetics in their motor.

I personally run dino 10w30 in the summer, in winter conditions its 5w30. As far as brand its whatever is on sale.

ejprimo

hookups , i know this can be confusing but there are currently two types of castrol syntec 0w-30 available. the first one is the US made syntec from which are the specs you provided. it has either a red or yellow label and says on the back "made from imported and/or domestic components in the US" or something similar to that. also it has the API starburst symbol on the front. the second type is the "made in germany" castrol syntec 0w-30 and it comes with the red label and says "made in germany" on the rear. also, there is no API satrburst symbol on the front of the bottle. this oil is also known as castrol SLX in europe and other parts of the world. i spend a lot of time on bobistheoilguy.com and it was one person on that site who discovered that castrol was bottling castrol SLX as 0w-30 syntec and marketing it in canada. later it arrived in the US, but is still hard to find b/c only a limited shipment was sent. regular castrol syntec and german syntec (SLX) are two completely different oils. while the first is made from group III basestocks, the latter is believed to be a mixture of group IV and V basestocks.

here is an email that patman to castrol of germany with specs on castrol SLX:

http://theoildrop.server101.co...00008

"I sent Castrol Germany an email and they sent me a nice document in German on Formula SLX, and had someone here translate it for me to give the following specs:

Color: Green
Pour Point: -61*C
Flash Point: 238*C
Viscosity @ 40*C: 68.5
Viscosity @ 100*C: 12.1
Viscosity @ 150*C: 5.7
HTHS: 3.6
Cold Cranking Vis @ -30*C: 3200
TBN: 10.6
VI: 179 "

also search using the words "german syntec" on bobistheoilguy.com and itll give you a lot of info about this oil. as far as i know only autozone and some wallmarts carry the german syntec.

HookUpsImportTek

See, thats what I was wondering. Because I did see you mention a "German" Syntec. Although I did request the product data sheets on the entire Syntec line. It looks entirely possible that these group IV and V basestock euro fomulas were not included in those sheets. I my area I have yet to see ANY German Syntec and I live in california. Thats seems weird because it looks like people are able to get it in the boonies. Still, if those are the official numbers that oil is not widely available so it looks as I couldent even get it if I wanted it. That being said, most people agree that the VI shows the biggest difference between oil's and Mobil1 seems to be holding its weight in that catagory.

irev210

what about mobil 1 15-50 "racing formula"

I currently use mobil 1 10w30 w/ my b20vtec

It sees 8200 RPM atleast 5 times a day, yet I dont burn any oil.
I dont see how you HAVE to burn oil w/ vtec motor...
I dont.
The only time i burned oil is when I mis-shifted and hit 10k rpm
burned about 1/3rd to 1/2 a quart.

MikeSarr_GSR

if you drive like an *** in WOT VTEC all the time you will new-like-new motor or not.

irev210

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MikeSarr_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you drive like an *** in WOT VTEC all the time you will new-like-new motor or not. </TD></TR></TABLE>

*shrug* i dont
and i aint no liar

ejprimo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HookUpsImportTek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">See, thats what I was wondering. Because I did see you mention a "German" Syntec. Although I did request the product data sheets on the entire Syntec line. It looks entirely possible that these group IV and V basestock euro fomulas were not included in those sheets. I my area I have yet to see ANY German Syntec and I live in california. Thats seems weird because it looks like people are able to get it in the boonies. Still, if those are the official numbers that oil is not widely available so it looks as I couldent even get it if I wanted it. That being said, most people agree that the VI shows the biggest difference between oil's and Mobil1 seems to be holding its weight in that catagory.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i live in los angeles and i found 13 quarts. ive used 5 quarts and i have 9 left over. go to autozone and you may find it. it all matter on whether that specific autozone has sold all their old stock. remeber german syntec 0w-30 doesnt have the API starburst symbol on the front and it says "made in germany" on the back. if it doesnt have either then its not the real deal.