I'm just getting started doing my own alignments by string, so of course I'm overcorrecting and having to go back and forth on the tie rods. Can someone with experience give me some tips? For instance, I think that 1 rotation of the outer tie rod comes out to about 5mm toe change. But not exactly. I'm on my third try and I'm still off a mm on each side. Does rotating the inner tie rod affect toe? If so, then by how much? Cuz doing a partial turn of the outer tie rod requires that I turn the inner tie rod until the ball joint at the end is facing down so I can bolt it to the spindle.

Whats the best way to do the rear? So far I've come up with the idea to mark the current position on the toe arm, loosen it, then move it about 1/4th the mm of the difference in toe change that I require (just shooting for 0 for now). But it hasn't been accurate.

How many tries does it take an experienced alignment technician? I would think at least two.

Yes I roll the car out after every adjustment. Then I have to set the strings back up and that's whats making this such a pain, not to mention taking everything back apart again.

This is on a 5th gen Civic.

 

As a person working at a dealer, I can tell you exactly how many tries it takes to get a good alignment: one. But keep in mind, I'm sitting under a $60,000 alignment machine. I see all the measurements exactly, and watch as they change from the adjustments I make. Never done an alignment with a string, but I feel your pain. I'll offer all the help I can.

I'm not sure how you are adjusting the front toe, but it sounds like you are taking the tie rod end out of the knuckle. The right way to do it is to loosen the jam nut on the tie rod, and turn the tie rod with a 14mm wrench, there's a place on it right by the jam nut.

I'm not sure how many turns for how much adjustment, but one way (although sorta complicated) is to count threads per inch, and do some math on the distance from the mounting point on the knuckle to the tread of the tire. Then you would know that X turns on the tie rod equals X movement of the knuckle, which is X movement of the tire.

Same sort of thing for the rear, just look at the distance of the tread to the rotation point of the toe, and look at the distance of the toe adjustment to the toe rotation point. The ratio of these two would tell you how much to move at the adjustment point.

If you have any more questions, bring them on.

 

Aw man, I knew that. Thanks for reminding me. Somehow I forgot and didn't think about it and got stuck in a routine. You just saved me a lot of trouble. From now on I'll turn the inner tie rod and leave the outer tie rod connected to the knuckle.

I'm going to get some short pots and fill them with gravel to use as slip plates and also to lift the car up for access underneath. Then I will have real time adjustment readings, although I'll need a partner to measure them and tell me how much to go.

 

Good idea on the pots of gravel. That should give it enough space to turn without binding up. Sand might work as well.

 

Man, Ive never heard of doing alignments with a string, But good luck!
I work at a dealership and do maybe 5-6 alignments a week...

The precision of the Hunter alignment machine is good. Sometimes TOO good. You get everything Perfect and by tightening the tie-rod jam nut, itll stretch the tie rod and push your toe out of specs!

When you get it all done,you should go have it checked by a professional just to make sure.

Remember, Toe in or out will cause the MOST tire wear. Just because your steering wheel is straight and it doesnt pull doesnt mean your toe is.

 

I know toe causes the most wear, but contrary to popular belief here at Honda Tech, I have a 1.5 inch drop and severe negative camber wear with papers to prove the toe is 0. Camber wear is real.

Many shops still do alignments by string. All race teams and many autoXers do their own alignments by string at the track. I'm doing mine because I'll be changing the alignment and ride height a lot and I don't want to pay the cost for someone just to get it within spec and give up w/out it being even. Besides, they charge extra for aftermarket alignment kits and lowering, and most shops refuse to even try an alignment on a lowered car.

I have another important question: camber or toe first? I adjusted the camber and that's what threw the toe out making it imperative that I attempt this now. But I know that toe greatly affects camber because the reading changes a lot if I don't hold the gauge exactly perpendicular to the wheel. So which do I adjust first? Or do I have to go back and forth? I imagine that toe is given priority since it is the most important, but I really want to hear your expert opinions.

Of course I will take it to a computerized alignment shop and get a printout to compare with my readings and post it for all who are interested.

Thank you so much for the info so far BTW. I hope you come back to this thread and see my new questions.

 

Depending on the vehicle and suspension geometry, Camber will usually affect toe but toe will usually not effect camber too much...
If it does it is usually very minimal.Castor will almost always affect both camber and toe,but again these may change from vehicle to vehicle...

Adjust the camber first then the toe...Then go back and adjust the camber if necessary.Good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PyroProblem &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Adjust the camber first then the toe...Then go back and adjust the camber if necessary</TD></TR></TABLE>

You'll probably have to do a bit of chasing to get it right.

 

set the toe and let em go...drdisco69 u should know that saying...how fast do u do your alignments,assuming u do caster,camber,toe?

 

Hondas don't have adjustable caster and camber, so it takes about 15 minutes total, plus a test drive.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drdisco69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hondas don't have adjustable caster and camber, so it takes about 15 minutes total, plus a test drive. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm not talking about honda, i'm talking about a car that has camber, caster, and toe

 

Well the porsche guys get paid 3 hours for an alignment on some cars, and they're prying stuff around fixing caster and ****, but i've only done hondas, no touchy porsche and stuff like that.

 

Just wait till you try doing a rear alignment (using yardsticks and and a try square) on an older Supra with combination camber/toe rear eccentrics. Change the camber, it changes the toe (nothing unusual with that part), but changing the toe changes the camber on that car. Sooooo much easier with the Hiunter.

Trays on greased waxpaper also makes great ghetto slip plates.

 

**** that, I'll stick with the 4 link on my 85 Corolla GT-S. Rear alignment? Of course it's fine! Now putting the adjustable rear links in will make aligning that thing a ton of fun, I'm sure.

 

Toe and go is the reason why I no longer pay for alignments. Once they get it in spec, they dont care if its even or anything. Most of them are such dicks about it thinking they know everything, including whats best for me even they dont know how I use the car.

Old MR2s are camber caster toe adjustable from the factory. I'm trying to get good enough at this that the local MR2 club will start bringing all their cars to me.

Slip plates are the key.