Jose-aka-Pedro

I have -3.10 camber all around, Lowerd3-4" Rides 4-5" from ground
and in 4-6 months no uneven wear my toe is set at 0





IDK but mines fine....

Design

Jose, any pictures of the inner tread up close? You "might" be surprised...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by twgracer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Having the inside edge worn is a sign of excessive camber. The picture shows and obvious negative camber issue. Toe out of adjustment makes a fethered wear patten on the tread. Yes, toe will wear tires quicker, but the tire pattern we are looking at is from camber, not toe. Negative camber will help the car in corners because the tire rolls and then is making more of a full contact patch on the road. When driving straight, negative camber will wear the inside of the tire, just like the picture.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you know that's negative camber? What if that is the outside edge of the tire? I agree that camber wear plays a part. It usually accounts for 10% of overall tire wear.

However, I can also tell you with 95% certainty that it is mostly toe wear accelerated by the positive or negative camber. The direction and wear pattern will tell alot about the tire's history. The reason I cited the picture is you really cannot see the tread markings on the worn edge in order to make an accurate judgement.

Almost all tire wear that I see on lowered vehicles has the following combination of wear patterns:

http://www.familycar.com/class...r.gif
http://www.familycar.com/class...e.gif

This will tell you if a tire is under drag and at what angle it is being dragged. It is important not to rule out the countless other factors such as tire pressure and wheel balance.


Modified by Design at 2:35 PM 4/14/2006

HiProfile

Why do you all fight back and forth about wether it causes wear or not? One setting gives you better handling, another optimizes handling.

And if you insist on saying neg camber doesn't cause wear, will you replace tires when it's found that -35* (neg thirty-five) of camber has caused the inner sidewall to fail? The fact is that angling a tire causes one side to deform more. When the tire deforms to fit the road surface, it basicly slides on the road surface, causing friction. Wear is based on friction. The inner section of a neg camber'd tire will contact the road longer than the outside, and tires wear due to friction when it contacts the ground. Those arguing camber causes *no* wear are essentially saying increased contact with the road causes no wear...


Another part about the whining I don't get - when its so easy to fix on a honda, why don't you? A broken windshild doesn't make the air flow slower, but it makes the car look delapitated. Same for tires drooping inwards ... it looks worse the the double-decker wings.

green91

thats why i quit replying to this thread, its 100% fact that camber is a wearing alignment angle and people continue to argue. but oh well, i only work on cars for a living and see the affects of alignment angles and tire wear.. what do i know?

hell why does everyone spend so much money on camber kits, etc if it doesnt wear your tires out.

743power

I bought a camber kit for my car. When I went to get it aligned, I said -2.5*, please.

Like I said, not trying to argue, just stating my observations. over 50k miles on multiple sets of tires, toe at 0.00, no signs of any tire wear related to my negative camber.

AspectIndustries

Ok, since this debate has gone around nowhere, and I still try to prove my point.

I decided to email an engineer from falken tires and ask "does camber affect irregular tire wear? Being that toe is at perfect ZERO!"

Here is what he replied.

"Absolutely! - <U> Incorrect Camber settings on a vehicle will cause irregular Tire wear</U>!"
Tim Widener - Product Engineer
Technical Department - Falken Tire Corporation

-----------
Anyone wants to argue with this guy?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by synik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"Absolutely! - <U> Incorrect Camber settings on a vehicle will cause irregular Tire wear</U>!"</TD></TR></TABLE>

Personally, I feel your question should have been a little more specific. Perhaps including info about the actual argument that's taking place here & the experiences shared by other H-T members. The fact is that his return statement is qualified by the abstract term "incorrect". What exactly is incorrect? Outside manufacturer spec? Not necessarily...

The fact is that YES additional negative camber outside factory spec on a passenger/economy car will cause additional inner edge wear. That wear, however, can quickly be offset by driving said passenger/economy car like a sports car. Any spirited driving you do will immediately wear the outer edges of your tires and there is no way around that. It's not such a big deal that it should come to blows...

I myself drive my Civic lowered 3" with no camber kits or washer tricks and experience no abnormal wear just like others have shown again & again on this board. It would seem that this is how these cars should be set up if that's how you plan to drive them. My experience only applies to civics & integras, as other cars with different suspensions will have very different results...

Suggestion (not law): Don't buy a camber kit until you know your getting abnormal tire wear (with corrected toe settings).

Hope this helps put both sides of this argument together...

743power

excess negative camber, esp. on the front will cause alot more wear if you only drive your car straight and never turn it.

jerry5150

Anyone know if the bolts spec'd in the link will work for a 94 Accord?
I.E. 10mm x 60mm x 1.25?

LiL_Shaun

hey so whats the maximum amount of washers you guys think would be safe to put? i have -3.6* at the rear drivers side and im thinkin about putting 4 or 5 washers on to fix it...do u think this is too much to put on?

also...the -3.6* camber corner has .37* toe...if i fix the camber will it bring the toe down some?

LiL_Shaun

bump

LiL_Shaun

bizzump

Fuster_Cluck

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jaydm ferio &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Thought this link would help you guys out..

http://home.earthlink.net/~civ....html</TD></TR></TABLE>

Damn, that is still up

I used that site (same pics) to do the washer trick when I owned my 98 LX back in 2000/2001

LiL_Shaun

yea how many washers did u put? is it safe to put more than 3 washers? cuz so far thats the most that any1s put on in the threads i read about this topic

Fuster_Cluck

I laugh about the link above being around so long....

Forgot my geocities site is still up, lol:

According to my web page (it's been 4 years and 3 Hondas since then ) I used 3 to shim out the camber. I do remember trying like 5 or 6 at first and there was way to much positive camber.

&gt;&gt; $7 Rear camber fix &lt;&lt;

Hope that helps

PS &lt;&gt; Excuse the picture quality. That was my dad's 1.3mp? polaroid from back in the day

1 2 NV

you guys that sit here and say that your camber is negative this that and the other and not affecting tire wear are ignorant as hell. factory honda alignment camber settings are +/-1* even at -2* you will see camber wear. it might take a little longer than the car that has -3.5* but it will happen. i spent 3 years of my life aligning cars and specialized in lowered cars particularly hondas. camber wears tires PERIOD.

EK k kay

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you guys that sit here and say that your camber is negative this that and the other and not affecting tire wear are ignorant as hell. factory honda alignment camber settings are +/-1* even at -2* you will see camber wear. it might take a little longer than the car that has -3.5* but it will happen. i spent 3 years of my life aligning cars and specialized in lowered cars particularly hondas. camber wears tires PERIOD.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah that's the point. It doesn't eat away at your tires quickly enough to matter as opposed to toe wear. I only see a tiny amount of uneven wear in a year running -2.5 camber all around.

1 2 NV

of course its not going to wear as fast as a toe problem. if you like buying tires sooner than normal IF you had purchased that camber kit, be my guest.

TunerN00b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you guys that sit here and say that your camber is negative this that and the other and not affecting tire wear are ignorant as hell. factory honda alignment camber settings are +/-1* even at -2* you will see camber wear. it might take a little longer than the car that has -3.5* but it will happen. i spent 3 years of my life aligning cars and specialized in lowered cars particularly hondas. camber wears tires PERIOD. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why does everyone seem to think that the factory camber spec is correct for a car that has had the spring rate, roll center, center of gravity, camber curve, and bump curve changed from factory settings? When nothing else about the suspension has been left unchanged by a lowering, wouldn't it make sense to change the static camber setting too?

Besides, driving wears tires PERIOD. So maybe we should all stop driving our cars. So does accelerating, braking, and cornering for that matter.

There is no magic static camber setting for everyone to use, we all have to find a balance that applies for our specific car and driving style. Cornering will wear the outside faster than the rest of the tire, and I wonder why people waste the money to lower a car, and give it reduced ride quality and suspension travel, when they aren't even going to drive it hard enough to offset any inside wear caused by higher static camber settings.

smartguysjt

what happens if the bolt is crossthreaded how do you get this out...i think it's the welded nut on the inside of the frame that's messed up...

projectTeG

you get the bolt out and if the threads are still ok you can use a tap to fix it. or you will have to upgrade to the next sized bolt to and drill and tap it.

smartguysjt

threads are not good at all........ i don't have any threads in the firewall anymore so how would i get to the inside where the welded part is at so i can get a nut or something to hold my bolt...

smartguysjt

this is a illustration of what i was referring tohttp://www.nostreetracing.org/forums...431#post373431

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

You have to register to see those pics.

You will likely have to cut into the unibody from inside the rear of the car to access where the upper arm bolt holes are, and have new nuts re-welded on the inside.