Vic08

Upgrading my 96 CX hatch with CTR front lower control arms and CTR 26mm sway bar, I wanted to see if anyone has experience with Hardrace vs Energysuspension bushings Pros / Cons?
Just to add: the car is daily driven for now and will be tracked occasionally, basically I would like it to handle like it's on rails LOL
your input is appreciated, thank you all in advance.

Andy@AMR

For a daily driver, occasional track car, get the hardened rubber bushings from hardrace. If you want to get anything spherical, make it the rear trailing arm bushing, use the PCI. We have it listed on our site.

Peace.

Andy

98civdx

I just got done putting PIC hard rubber bushings in my civic. You can't go wrong with either them or Hardrace. Forget going poly though. it's junk

Vic08

Thank you Andy for your input, much appreciate it. Nice site by the way

Vic08

Thanks for the reply, I think I'm leaning towards Hardrace.

98civdx

I'll be totally honest, I don't know of a difference between the kits. I went PIC because it was cheaper.

DJackson1357

I've run the Hardrace stuff with good luck for many years and 60K+ miles

I would recommend OE Honda RTA bushings instead of the Hardrace unit however.

98civdx

Not to thread jack here, but why do you say that? Comfort?

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I have the hardrace TA bushings in my daily and don't really care for the way they feel, they are a bit too stiff, make the rear end twitchy and when it comes loose it's very abrupt. They also fit pretty poorly, IMO. I've already put factory ones in the hot rod, God knows they'll probably rot out of it before that thing ever sees the track though lol.

My personal prescription is to be stiff everywhere except the rear TA and front compliance bushings.

98civdx

Dammit. That's exactly what I disliked with the ES TA bushings. Rear was super twitchy.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Anything that reduces compliance thhere is going to have that effect. It's a joint that needs to pivot and translate to allow the suspension to work.

I will say that the Hardrace bushing is way better than poly in that joint though.

Vic08

Thank you all your feedback. Here's what I ordered so far...and will keep you posted on how it goes.
Hardrace part #
6266: 26mm front sway bar bushing
6217: sway bar endlinks
7200: front lower arm bushings
6291: front compliance bushings

Time to remove all the old bushings and end links off the CTR bits but first coffee

98civdx

Why not just order the entire kit?

granted it doesn't come with endlinks/bar bushings.

DJackson1357

I'm a few days late and spAdam already made some good points. My main issues were the fitment when installing was a lot tighter than the OEM units and required a press instead of a dead blow hammer. I actually ruined a set trying to install them. The reason I was installing them was the first set I had in there the rubber was tearing from the front of the bushing on both sides. Based on the motion that joint goes through I think the Hardrace (and PIC for that matter) bushings are just too stiff.

I ended up replacing them both with OEM Honda CRV units as I heard they were slightly stiffer than the Civic pieces. Not sure if that's true, but they're working great so far.

testify

Just go polyurethane from Energy or Prothane.

The real reason those guys don't like the poly bushings is because they never lubed them and they heard them squeak once. Seriously.

Poly is a breeze to install and will outlast any rubber bushing whilst provide an even greater reduction in compliance.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Don't include me in your generalization please.

I don't dislike poly at all. I also know how to maintain them and have never personally burned any up or worn any out from lack of. I've also been a big advocate of them being fine as long as you use the correct manufacturer subscribed lube.

I don't, however, care for them in locations where compliance is appropriate and/or required for proper suspension kinematics... Places like trailing arm bushings as we are discussing here. Using a stiffer bushing in that location completely changes the effective wheel rate of the rear in unpredictable and usually undesirable ways.

I also don't care for stiffer compliance bushing in the front. The general school of thought is that the softer bushing in that location allows the front arms to pivot rearward under braking torque, causing the front tires to toe in slightly and increasing stability under hard braking. I have no way to confirm the mechanics of it, but I do agree with the effects and prefer a stock bushing there.

Vic08

It just would not work for my setup and as you stated it would not cover all the bushings.
Setup:
Front lower = CTR control arms and 26mm sway bar
Front Upper = CX stock (bushings to be upgraded to Hardrace)
Rear = ASR control arms
ASR Subframe Reinforcement Brace w/ 24mm Swaybar
TEIN Street Advance Damper all around
* I'll report back once completed as to how it performs. thanks for the feedback.

testify

I can understand your desire for soft RTA bushings. They make driving the car much more forgiving at the limit. If you have a poor setup or mediocre driving skills they certainly might help keep you from looping the car.

But you absolutely need your head examined if you think soft front compliance bushings are desirable on any level. The amount of throttle response and braking control you get out of going REALLY stiff there transforms the car. You stop the front wheels from pitching back and forth a couple inches every time you touch the throttle or the brakes. They are an absolute necessity if you are doing any kind of spirited driving.

testify

Also, the larger front sway bar will only slow the car down as I'm assuming you have an open diff.

The bar will only serve to exacerbate inside wheel spin on corner exit.

hondur

iTrader: (1)

That's the only thing that it's going to do? Are you sure that you think that?

testify

Yes, 10 years experience building and racing FWD racecars, plus the fact that what I stated is common knowledge across ALL platforms, yes, I'm sure.

You might get a tiny bit of increased steering response out of a larger front bar, but that is something that only affects feel, not lap times.

Most people go smaller with the front bar or remove it altogether. Increased spring rates can handle the reduced roll resistance.

98civdx

Both companies make a 99-00 SI specific kit. (same as CTR) All of the other bushings are the same.
The front lowers can be a huge pain due to the 1 piece design, I experienced this also. I have the same sway bar/LCA's.

Good luck!

hondur

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking of the perspective of my own automobile, being that I didn't read and remember how he had nice dampers and springs while i've got some oem *****.

Vic08

thanks man much appreciate your input.

FlewByU352

I've been running Energy Suspension poly bushings on literally every bushing on the car for over 6 years now and they still show no signs of wear. I haven't seen any negatives to them and when it comes time to change them, it's a simple job and less than $200 for everything. My take is that if you can't go spherical, go Delrin, if you can't afford either you go polyurethane. Why people still go with rubber confuses me. Rubber requires clocking the bushings and tightening down the bolts with the cars weight on it.

People that argue the poly RTA bushings restrict the movement that the OEM bushing was designed to do and that's bad, yet say spherical as the solution. Understand the purpose of the OEM bushing is to change the toe curve under braking for stability and understeer for road safety of your every day driver. Spherical cannot replicate that movement because it is shifting the whole arm forward. Poly limits this movement but still retains some give.