Ok, here's the scoop.

I'm currently in the process of swapping in a JDM h22.

I did the manual tensoiner conversion on the motor b4 I put it in.

Got It all swapped in and I fired up the motor yesterday.
It idled from 900-1200 back and forth but sounded terrible.

I had spark and fuel so I knew the timing was the issue.

So I played with the distributor and still couldn't get it timed right
so I figured it was a tooth off

Ok, today I pulled the timing belt off again and reset everything and put
the belts back on. I rotated the motor to make sure the timing marks were still
dead on and they were so I put everything back together.

Fired it up, once again ran like poo so we played with the distributor
again and the only way we could even get the motor to rev w/o misfiring
was to advance the dizzy as far as it could go.

I am using a timing gun while playing with the dizzy too.

I pulled the plugs and they were wet and black so i'm assuming that
i'm getting too much fuel or not enough air.

Anybody have any ideas.

I'm gonna have to pull the valve cover again tomorrow and take a look
at the marks again. I'm afraid that i'm still off a tooth on one of the cam gears

 

I also adjusted the tensioner bolt just like the helms says to do it

A different question concerning the timing balancer belt.

It says to put a 6x100mm bolt though the balance shaft

via the service bolt on the back of the block.

Has anyone skipped this with no problems.

I lined up the other two marks for the other balancer pulleys.

Can the balancer belt have an affect on the timing as well?

 

as far as your timing issues go, what did the timiing gun read when you advanced it all the way? was it anywehre near 15BTDC?

and most importantly do you have any check lights on?

also the balancer belt cant affect the timing, worst case it will make ur **** shake if its not lined up correctly.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eddiebx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as far as your timing issues go, what did the timiing gun read when you advanced it all the way? was it anywehre near 15BTDC?

and most importantly do you have any check lights on?

also the balancer belt cant affect the timing, worst case it will make ur **** shake if its not lined up correctly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It was close, but even then it was not at 15 degrees.

Good thing to hear on the balancer belt.

I am throwing one code, code 21, which is for the vtec solenoid i believe
which i haven't hooked up yet.

 

well there you go
that will make your car run timming retarded if your car throw a code fix it i had the same problem till i fix the vtec and then it was fine

 

have a code causes misfire?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superjunprelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well there you go
that will make your car run timming retarded if your car throw a code fix it i had the same problem till i fix the vtec and then it was fine </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure the VTEC code will not pull timing at idle, it will only prevent VTEC from kicking in.

When my timing belt skipped a tooth, it was like yours: I would hit the flywheel w/ the light and it would never get to the 15 mark; w/ the dizzy advanced fully, it was still about two degrees shy.

Those marks are weird, so you gotta make sure they're DEAD on....and they'll move just a bit when you tension the belt.

And about the balancer shafts: You need to stick the bolt in the service hole if you're putting that belt back on, but the balancer shaft belt won't cause your problems if it's off a tooth. If it were off a tooth, it may just cause some weird vibrations at idle.

 

yeh the vtec code is definitely not causing your timing issues at idle. I'd recheck that the timing belt is all lined up right. even if the cams are lined up, mebbe the crank is one tooth off? possible issue to look at.

 

For some reason, the cam gear on the intake side seems a little loose.

I know it tightened down though but the problem is when i'm lining the marks up

on the cam gears the gear wants to move a tooth and not line up.

I had to use a wrench to keep it in place while I put the belt on.

I'm thinking maybe the marks are somehow off after i tension the bolt

but i checked them after i tensioned it last time and they were still on.

Today when I redo the timing belt i think i'm gonna leave the upper tb covor off

that way i can check the marks w/o pulling the valve cover.

Chase, thanks for the heads up on the balancer belt.

I'll see if I can find that 6x100mm bolt at the hardware store.

Where did you get yours?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SKDRCR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Chase, thanks for the heads up on the balancer belt.

I'll see if I can find that 6x100mm bolt at the hardware store.

Where did you get yours?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well you need it b/c unless you draw marks onto the belt while it's on correctly, it's next to impossible to get it lined up correctly.

I just used a long thin flathead screwdriver; anything long and thin enough to fit into the hole and catch the notch in the balancer shaft will work.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well you need it b/c unless you draw marks onto the belt while it's on correctly, it's next to impossible to get it lined up correctly.

I just used a long thin flathead screwdriver; anything long and thin enough to fit into the hole and catch the notch in the balancer shaft will work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's how i improvised when i did it but i thought that the hole went all
the way through the balance shaft so wouldn't that mean there would be
two points that it could fit through.

I think i'm gonna try to mess with the tensioner before i take the tb off again.

Only problem is that there is hardly any play with the tensioner as it is.

I have to have it all the way pushed down to even get the belt to fit on

 

The 6X100 bolt just goes through a hole in the shaft to make sure it is lined up. You do not actually NEED a 6x100 bolt. I use a phillips screwdriver. A pen, a wooden or metal dowel, an ice pick would all work the same.

The Up and down, up and down idle is probably a vacuum leak.

Pirate.

 

Well I pulled off the valve cover today and guess what, all of the timing marks
were still lined up so I didn't take the belt off again.

The belt seemed a little loose so I adjusted the tensioner and the belt tightened
up. After that I checked the marks again and they were still on.

So I put everything back together and fired her up.

The idle is steady around 1k rpms.

So I pull out the timing gun again to check it and the timing seems to
still be off. I even played with the distributor and still couldn't get the
flywheel mark on.

I'm thinking either I don't know how to properly use this timing gun or
it's messed up which i seriously doubt.

I said wtf, and took it for a test drive.

If i give it a lot of gas it will studder so I took it easy on her and kept
driving around.

It's mainly misfiring around 28-3200 rpm's

Tomorrow i'm going to advance the dizzy all the way and see if it
will run smooth throughout the rpm's.

When i was playing with the dizzy earlier, I had it advanced all the way
and revved the motor in neutral and it didn't seem to misfire.

I've checked, there isn't any vaccuum leaks or anything.

Another thing, if i'm cruising in second at about 4k rpms and i just
let the car slow down it sometimes will backfire.

I still think it's a timing issue, but I just can't fathom how all the marks
are dead on when I rotate the motor by hand, then the timing gun reads
poo when the motor is running

 

Did you check the timing mark on the crank pulley?

You could have done what I've done before; the cam timing marks LOOK like theyr'e pointing at each other, but in reality they are each one notch too low, pointing too far down into the center. If you rotate the left cam CCW one tooth and the right one CW one tooth, they should line up again, and be straight.

If you are turning the dizzy fully advanced and it's still not quite on, but you can see the "15" mark on the flywheel right above it, then your exhaust cam is off a tooth.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LudeyKrus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you check the timing mark on the crank pulley?

You could have done what I've done before; the cam timing marks LOOK like theyr'e pointing at each other, but in reality they are each one notch too low, pointing too far down into the center. If you rotate the left cam CCW one tooth and the right one CW one tooth, they should line up again, and be straight.

If you are turning the dizzy fully advanced and it's still not quite on, but you can see the "15" mark on the flywheel right above it, then your exhaust cam is off a tooth.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I checked the mark on the crank pulley, which should be the same as the
lining up the flywheel mark and it lined up when i had the cam gears lined up.

What does CW and CCW stand for?

When i'm using the timing gun should it be at 0 or at 15 degrees adv?

I do recall seeing the 15 degree mark on the flywheel but I can't recall
if that was before or after I redid the timing belt.

I'll have to check that again tonight

 

CW=clockwise
CCW=counter clockwise

The timing gun should be set at 0 degrees.

 

koo, thanks for the help Chase, I'll get back to you after i tinker
with it a little more.

 

No prob Bob!

 

There are usualy two marks on the flywheel. One for TDC and one at ~15deg. Make sure you are using the TDC mark to install the belt and the 15deg mark with the gun set at 0 to adjust the distributor. Or set the gun to 15deg and use the TDC mark. Make sense? Also, some ecu's require you to jump the service jumper when setting the timing so that the ECU has the timing at a fixed value (no temperature corrections, etc.). Good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are usualy two marks on the flywheel. One for TDC and one at ~15deg. Make sure you are using the TDC mark to install the belt and the 15deg mark with the gun set at 0 to adjust the distributor. Or set the gun to 15deg and use the TDC mark. Make sense? </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you are saying that if it's reading the 15deg mark the timing is on
if the gun is set at 0?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, some ecu's require you to jump the service jumper when setting the timing so that the ECU has the timing at a fixed value (no temperature corrections, etc.). Good luck.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm, I haven't heard this one but maybe i'll try that and see what happens.

I did the timing belt again yesterday, lined the marks all up again before i put
the belt on.

Once again it seems like the mark on the crank is off a tooth.

Using the timing gun, I was able to get the TDC mark on the flywheel
lined up when i retarded the dizzy.

I went out and test drove it and it ran like absolute horseshit.

So I fully advanced the distributor and the car has no hesitations
whatsoever, runs rather clean, but with the dizzy advanced like that,
the mark is no where close when reading it with the timing gun.

I think I'm going to go ahead and wire in vtec just to get rid of the CEL.

One less problem to worry about and go from there.

 

I've never did the jumper thing when setting mine and I was fine.

Also, I'm pretty sure I remember the flywheel's TDC mark should line up w/ the notch in the timing hole in the tranny when you have the motor at TDC and the cams lined up correctly.

Do you have a digicam? Stick a long screwdriver into cylinder #1's spark plug hole and rotate it until it sits EXACTLY at where it stops going up and starts going down. Then look at the cam timing marks. This will give you a good idea of how things are set, as you don't have to try to eyeball everything.

I'm tellin ya, i had this EXACT same problem before.......haha, in a weekend I took my motor apart, reset the timing belt, and put it all back together and ran it prob. about 5-6 times!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flyrod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are usualy two marks on the flywheel. One for TDC and one at ~15deg. Make sure you are using the TDC mark to install the belt and the 15deg mark with the gun set at 0 to adjust the distributor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, I checked it again today.

I jumped the service connector like you said.
With the gun set at 0 and the car ideling the gun
was reading the 15 mark on the flywheel with the dizzy about in the middle.
Does that mean it's timed right or should I be reading the TDC mark
on the flywheel instead of the 15 mark.

The car feels pretty good