I have a gen 4 lude and am looking into doing some suspension work. Leaning toward Tockigo (sp?) shocks and Tein springs. I've heard that adding a front upper tie bar increases understeer. Is this true and what is it? And can u correct the understeer by adding a rear upper tie bar as well as a front?

 

understeer is just the fact that the front wheels want to make a larger turning radius that the rear wheel when cutting a corner real fast.

You may want to add some oversteer oil to counterbalance it.....

Nah, seriously, I don't see a problem with a little understeer, but then again... JMHO.

fs

 

Understeer is when the car pushes through a turn. You know, when you turn the steering wheel but the car continues in a straight motion.

Oversteer is when the backend comes out (drifting)

From the factory, car manufacturers design the car with understeer in mind. It's a little safer for inexperienced drivers.

To induce oversteer, tighten the rear of the car (rear tower bar, lower strut bars, and a stiffer rear sway bar) and inflate the tires a little more. You can also take out the front swaybar if your car is lowered a little. I wouldn't recommend taking the front swaybar out if your car isn't lowered. Stiffer shock rates in the rear are a good idea too.

Strut front tower bars are not a good idea if you want to get rid of understeer. Tightening up the front of the car is not a good idea to decrease understeer. It actually promotes it.

Another good way to get rid of understeer is getting a nice set of tires.

 

Awsome guys, really broke it down. But which do you guys prefer? Understeer, Oversteer, or neutral setups without starting a argument.

 

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it mostly depends on your own personal preference...and you driving experience

 

it also depends on what style driving you do. On a small autoX cross...its important to swing the rear end out a little more...or maybe you want more transition speed from left to right which may require a front sway bar.

I say it ultimitely depends on the course/ and driving style.

I upgraded both sway bars...but have a much larger rear bar.....because the car handles more neutral with a bigger rear bar in terms of over/understeer...but it might not turn better for overall grip...if that makes sense

 

You just have to decide if, when you overcook a turn you want to leave the road front end first (understeer) or rear end first (oversteer)!

 

How to induce oversteer?

Pull the e-brake.

 

You could try changing the alignment.

A little toe out in the rear should help swing that back end out.

 

most track cars are setup with very slight understeer.. this includes indy cars

 

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For oval courses, then yes. But for road courses, it comes down to driver preference. Some drivers don't like understeer, others do; some will dial in oversteer, while others will work on getting the chassis neutral.

Personally, I like a neutral car - but that's hard to get just right on a front wheel drive car; my car feels good through medium speed sweepers and through esses and chicanes - but I lose out to understeer through low speed corners, and due to front end lift, I begin to get some high speed understeer abover 115mph.

Here again, its a compromise. I enjoy how nimble the car is through the esses and chicanes, but dislike the understeer thorugh the slow stuff. I could dial in oversteer to correct for the low - speed understeer, but that could cost me in the esses and chicane complexes by causing too much rotation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94Vtecluder &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's understeer and how do u correct it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

To start to understand what's going on, you have to get familiar with slip angles.

The slip angle, is the angle between the tires actual path its intended path.

When the tires exceed their limit of traction, the slip angle increase and they begin to break away - when the front tires do this, its refered to as : understeer.

Understeer happens when the front tires lose traction faster than the rear.

Ways to fix this, are: 1. increase grip at the front (larger, wider or stickier tires up front, different shock/ spring settings, lower the cofg) 2. induce less grip on the rear of the car, so that it break away before the front does ( i.e., larger rear anti-roll bars (to effectivly increase rearward roll stiffness), stiffer rear spring shock settings, a ride height that is rearward biased in rake, etc.)

Personally, I've always been one to increase front traction rather than limit rear traction. Other people, do it differently.

My argument has always been that the problem is a lack of grip at the front; not too much grip at the rear.

Lastly, if you're not into changing parts on the car. You "fix" understeer on a FWD by unwinding the wheel (slightly) when it begins to understeer. There are other driver induced methods as well, but I hestitate to comment, becuase I don't know your level of driving skill - and don't want to suggest something that might not apply to your situation.

 

i like neutral set ups.

 

dont step on the brake wene you are in a hard turn, that is a mistake..lol