My R is currently burning a good bit of oil and is accumulating a good bit of miles (75k) and I plan on doing a rebuild in the near future. Here lies my dilema. I don't plan on making the R some drag beast, in fact I plan on tracking it (roadcourse that is) as reguarly as possible. However it will also remain a weekend fun car. When I rebuild the engine I would like to do the job right and make the car as strong as possible even it its overkill to an extent. I am currently debating on whether to have it resleeved and bored to 84-84.5mm or just having it rebuilt to stock specs with forged internals. Both setups will recieve a mild bump in compression, but nothing crazy (around 11.4-11.6) to accomodate my cams.

When you look at it on paper it seems the 2.0liter would be a stronger setup due to the fact that all of the guys making major power with high boost pressure and such run them, but this is in drag racing. Are there any side effects a resleeved block could see during a 30min lapping session?

If I rebuild the 1.8 it is possible that it will have to be bored slightly, thus decreasing the cylinder wall strength. Would this in any way effect the reliability over a long session with the car having slightly raised compression? The plus side to this setup seems to be that it is using the OEM sleeves so no real risk of installation error and its cheaper.

Bottom line: Should I go for the bling 1.9-2.0liter setup or stay 1.8 if the car is going to be tracked. Consider I am extremely rich and money isn't much of an option (it is of course but this is for opinion sake).

 

i took couple laps at lowes motor speedway during that hyperfest event. they say it was 20min session. my car is a built 2.0L, its untuned right now. but i had no probs with it. i dont think it even got hotter than normal, and well, i dont even think it used much oil. i couldnt beleive it since i built the motor myself.

my friend had a GSR (I/H/E), and he was running hotter than i was. but i do have a C & R radiator, so that may be why.BTW: if boring to 84mm, sleeving the block is a must.

 

sleeve n bore

 

If you have the cash, sleeve the bitch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkyeC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you have the cash, sleeve the bitch.</TD></TR></TABLE> if you dont, then dont even try to build it

 

deffinatly re-sleeve to 84-85mm bores.........the torque increase will be awesome especially for accelerating out of the corner on a road course......

reliability will be the same or even better if you choose the right sleeves and pistons to go with them!

 

instead of 84-84.5mm have you consider 85mm , even some peeps do up to 86mm(on 86mm dont know much on the reliable issues ) you can always benefit from oversize

 

I'm led to beleive that the reliabilty is all in the builder and quality of parts used.

Now I could be wrong...

 

that is true i guess. i am no master engine builder. that was my first motor i completely built, from putting pistons in to tightening the last nut on the valve cover. but i guess it shows, i use good parts (hey, a couple of them are from LS integras !!!) and have a good turn out. and i am using a stock GSR belt on JUN3's

 

I recieved this info via a PM and would like some input on it.

"Running a 2.0L (bigger bore) will create alot crankcase pressure. Most people run breather tanks to alieve the pressures, but with that oil will be pushed out into the tank also. With a 20 minute lapping session your tank will be full of oil requireing to be emptied after each session. You will be adding a lot of oil for a days lapping session. Not to mention, with the added pressures seals tend to blow out (more maintenance-checking seals and stuff)

Also with an overbored setup, you will need to get custom headgasket; not to mention, you will need to open up the combustion chambers in your head; requiring more machine work and cash. Theres a lot that many drag racers dont mention; plus a lot of cash spent."

The oil situation is definitely something I'd like more info on. I'm not as much worried about opening up the combustion chamber. From what I've read it helps to optimize the setup in terms of power production, but is not essential in terms of reliability. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

running the bigger bore will increase crank case pressure. but it will in no way fill up a catch can within 20 minutes of racing.

i put over 10k miles on my small ~700ml catch can and it's only has a couple ounces of oil at the bottom. if the can is hooked up properly it will take about 2+ years to fill it right to the top.

no real need for custom made head-gaskets. there are plenty of company's making head-gaskets for that specific application. no big deal there......

you don't HAVE to have the chambers on the head opened up. it will help with combustion chamber flow and possibly give you more power. this is an option......plenty of guys are running it without the cambers opened up and are having no trouble.......

hope this help......

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=598197 go to the bottom to see a picture. if u haven't already. on wut endyn did about the crank case pressure with thier 2 liter.

 

bore it out and sleeve... then run atleast 12.5:1 compression

Make extra power while youre at it. It really doesent matter how much power you make to track your car... its really on your driving. So why not have a car that can perform in every catagory.

As for reliability... it depends on the tuning... a good tuner will make your car run smooth for a long time.

 

bottom line...it'd be stronger parts wise. just have it tuned accordingly and go rip it up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ActiveAero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recieved this info via a PM and would like some input on it.

"Running a 2.0L (bigger bore) will create alot crankcase pressure. Most people run breather tanks to alieve the pressures, but with that oil will be pushed out into the tank also. With a 20 minute lapping session your tank will be full of oil requireing to be emptied after each session. You will be adding a lot of oil for a days lapping session. Not to mention, with the added pressures seals tend to blow out (more maintenance-checking seals and stuff)

Also with an overbored setup, you will need to get custom headgasket; not to mention, you will need to open up the combustion chambers in your head; requiring more machine work and cash. Theres a lot that many drag racers dont mention; plus a lot of cash spent."

The oil situation is definitely something I'd like more info on. I'm not as much worried about opening up the combustion chamber. From what I've read it helps to optimize the setup in terms of power production, but is not essential in terms of reliability. Correct me if I'm wrong.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

there are companies that make 85mm gaskets , like RS machine . you can run your stock head with out doing headwork or opening the chambers , I did and made 250 to the crank on a stock head and re program p28 . Nowto get the full potential opening the chambers to match the displacement would help and you can also have gains , but you can do that went you have the cash(if cash is not a problem) then you can always benefit . Once i had headwork done and had work done on the chambers for more displacement , mid range saw gains up to 15hp top end around 5-8hp ......

 

IMO the further you get from OEM the less durable your engine will be. If you go 2 liter I'm sure the engine won't last as long as the original one. Honda did some interesting things to pull off a 2.0 liter on the S2000, like lighter pistons and such. Good luck.

 

sorry, but after a couple years of auto-x'ing and hpde'ing i'm firm believer in improving the driver before improving the car..

i say take the money you'd spend on rebuilding/resleeving and do a simple "cheap" rebuild (replacing what 'needs' to be replaced) then take the money you've saved and spend it on track time and driving schools (not to mention the pads, rotors, fluid and tires that you may need).. you may not be as fast on the street as you would be with a 1.9/2.0l but i guarantee your lap times will be faster opposed to just throwing in a more powerful motor.. trust me, you've got many years of track driving ahead of you before you "need" more power to turn faster times.. i say learn to handle what you have now and then build in the future when your power limitations are holding back your times..

but, since it sounds like you really want to improve on the performance while doing your maintenance here's my recommendation.. switch to a set of .25mm overbore p30 pistons (approx. 11.4:1) or .25mm over p73-00 (jdm itr) pistons (approx. 11.2:1), mill a bit off the head (.010"-.020"), replace relevant gaskets, belts, seals, bearings, etc. and call it good.. this will put you in the mid 11.4-11.6:1 range you wanted while still maintaining all oem components.. or you can make the switch to forged internals but that will increase the price at least $600..

it's really your call but just remember in the end the driver is what counts.

[edit]i just saw that you said "assume i'm extremely rich and money isn't an option".. in that case don't waste your money on an itr.. buy a "real" track car.. hahahahhah..

naw, if you've really got money to burn go with the re-sleeved c5 or a FI setup[/edit]


Modified by bojangs at 2:37 AM 9/4/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bojangs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sorry, but after a couple years of auto-x'ing and hpde'ing i'm firm believer in improving the driver before improving the car..

i say take the money you'd spend on rebuilding/resleeving and do a simple "cheap" rebuild (replacing what 'needs' to be replaced) then take the money you've saved and spend it on track time and driving schools (not to mention the pads, rotors, fluid and tires that you may need).. you may not be as fast on the street as you would be with a 1.9/2.0l but i guarantee your lap times will be faster opposed to just throwing in a more powerful motor.. trust me, you've got many years of track driving ahead of you before you "need" more power to turn faster times.. i say learn to handle what you have now and then build in the future when your power limitations are holding back your times..

but, since it sounds like you really want to improve on the performance while doing your maintenance here's my recommendation.. switch to a set of .25mm overbore p30 pistons (approx. 11.4:1) or .25mm over p73-00 (jdm itr) pistons (approx. 11.2:1), mill a bit off the head (.010"-.020"), replace relevant gaskets, belts, seals, bearings, etc. and call it good.. this will put you in the mid 11.4-11.6:1 range you wanted while still maintaining all oem components.. or you can make the switch to forged internals but that will increase the price at least $600..

it's really your call but just remember in the end the driver is what counts.

[edit]i just saw that you said "assume i'm extremely rich and money isn't an option".. in that case don't waste your money on an itr.. buy a "real" track car.. hahahahhah..

naw, if you've really got money to burn go with the re-sleeved c5 or a FI setup[/edit]


Modified by bojangs at 2:37 AM 9/4/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Great info and its something I've been considering. Regardless of my setup I'm fully aware of how important track experience is and I won't cry to badly when I have to wave by guys running in stock engined Honda's that have hawked me down.

The rebuild is alot out of need (excessive oil burning) and when I do it I want to go ahead and do it the best I can if I have the funds avaibable. We'll just have to see when the time comes.