Here are some details of the car/setup..

Ok, tonite I rolled the car out of the garage.. with no hood or front bumper..
primed the oil feed line..
then went to a gas station praying that no cops would drive by..
(i was empty, the light was on.. no choices..)

so I pull out, do the third gear run as a test to see if I'll even build boost.. everything seems ok, makes wierd *** noises, I don't know if it's the fact that there's no hood, or that the downpipe is only 2 inches long..

anyway, I turn a corner and take off in second.. it pulls nice, feels like there's some hesitation, almost like it chokes out for a second.. but then it takes off.. redline second, redline third, my dad's riding shotgun, supposedly watching the boost gauge, but instead he's watching the road, and saying "oh fu**"

next I turn a corner and stop to test out the full throttle launch..
I mash the clutch and gas, it revs to 4K and bounces there til I start letting the clutch out, at which point I lose 10 or 20 miles off my front tires, I shift to second and lose boost completely..

the car stops boosting completely.. then it starts into limp mode or something, I can't go over 4K rpms and there's no power..
then it starts overheating like mad.. I've never seen a temp gauge this high..
apparently I didn't wire up the fan correctly, since it wasn't coming on

so I limp home, and put the car back in the garage.. temps cool off as I'm driving but heat up as soon as I stop..

at home I realize that when I filled the new radiator with coolant, I didn't finish filling it after starting the car.. so between that and the non-functioning fan, there's my overheating problem..

next my friend sees that the hose clamp right after the intercooler had blown off, thus no boost..

I didn't drive it again after that, I don't want to push my luck..
no pcv system, no hood, no bumper, no gauges, no more driving tonite..

my question is: does a honda ecu drop to limp mode if the car overheats?
because if not, I may have already burned through one uberchip..

that reminds me.. the uberchip I'm running is for a P72, my ecu is a P61 as it is a 92 gsr..
it started up fine, I adjusted the fuel pressure to 40 psi, it misses a little bit, but seems to run pretty good..
watching the apexi auto timer showed an average air/fuel ratio of about 14.1, does that seem ok? shouldn't it be closer to 13 or 12 under WOT?

I'll have more info tomorrow..
I'm going to install the catch can, install the gauges to the point that they're functional, put on the bumper and hood, and do some more testing..

 

WHY?!?! take it easy man. work out the bugs before you boost.

 

For boost your going to want an a/f ratio of around 11.5(safe) to 12.5(kinda risky, but makes good power). You really have to watch out with turbos. You can blow up your motor so easily. I had the timing too far advanced in my corolla and it melted the pistons. 2 weeks later on a fresh motor I was messing with the boost controller and it spiked for only like 2 seconds and one of my pistons exploded! You should really watch out. Sounds like a lot of fun though, good luck.

 

aint boost great. fix before you break though. scary when you get an engine a little too warm.

get it legal too. you will get in so much trouble if the police find you in that condition... ugh

 

Ok, today I installed the PCV catch can system, haberdasher style..
Also, the hood and bumper are on (*sniff)..

I don't know how accurate my a/f ratios were from last nights runs..
tonite it was running rich..
idles steady around 10 or 11
on the gas it drops down to 10 - 12
oil and water temps don't go over 210, they start out at 180-190 but heat up after boosting a bit..
egts are running around 700 driving normally.. when I get it on it for a while, it starts heating up, I think 1300 or 1400 was the highest..
oil pressure reads around 10-15 psi at idle.. it climbs steadily with rpms.. runs about 30 or so on the expressway, while cruising..

boost gauge never reads more than about 5 psi.. the boost gauge and the bov are T'd off of the pcv input on the intake manifold, there's 3mm(?maybe?) vacuum line running from the T, all the way to the gauge..
the wastegate has the original .45 bar spring in it.. ~6.5 psi..

driving..
this car went into the garage 3 weeks ago, and came out with no power steering, no a/c, and boost... it feels like a freaking race car, and I love it..
first gear pulls like mad after 5K rpms, but the tires don't break loose..

I have some minor things I need to do, then I have to get to a shop with a dyno, and find someone who has experience tuning turbo'd hondas, which is going to be easy around here..

I'll post more info as I figure things out..

 

didn't you have to break anything in? or were they already broken in.. but good luck

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Integra_Boi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">didn't you have to break anything in? or were they already broken in.. but good luck</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not a brand neew motor.

 

A/F and EGT sound good. Definitely a good idea to get all the gauges in before boosting. I installed mine a few weeks before boosting to get a good "stock" baseline.

Is your wastegate vac. line hooked up BEFORE the intercooler? If so, that could explain the 5psi vs. 6.5psi because of the pressure drop in the IC.

If you are running the basemap uberchip, that's probably causing the hesitation. It's basically meant to get the car moving, as I understand. It also pulls 1º of timing per psi of boost, which is conservative, probably making you lose 10+hp and causing some of the hesitation.

I also had alot of "weird" noises when I didn't have my turbo hooked up the the exhaust system. It's internally gated and I could hear the flapper "rattling" around some when it was opened and I couldn't hear the BOV because it was so loud, haha.

Good luck and welcome to the never-ending, but enjoyable, project!

 

the turbo either? i read about him priming the oil.. so i thought there was a chance he put a brand new turbo also...

 

I was supposed to break in the turbo? oops
it's brand new, or was..
and by now it's either broken in, or just broken

it's a basemap uberchip for a g3 gsr, but I've got it on a g2 gsr..
my b17 doesn't have the intake runner control that I'm pretty sure b18c1's have..
also, I wouldn't be surprised if the ignition is way off..

I have everything I need to rewrite the chip with new fuel/ignition maps, except the software.. I'm waiting on batronix for that..

there's definitely hesitation and even stumbling under 4-5K rpms..

 

yea if its brand new.. u were suppose to break it in...

 

i would figure your egt would be higher with so much timing being pulled under boost

 

Just wanted to say Wow, your dad was riding shotgun thats awesome..

my dad likes my car, but im not sure how hes gonna like my turbo..

ps: my post is useless..

 

i dont think theres really a long breakin period at all with a turbo(just dont start the car and boost to 20psi right away). and priming it does nothing. we primed over and over and no oil came through. you dont make enough pressure to do anything. just start the car and then it will get oil.

 

Intergra_Boi: oh well, too late to break it in now.. I hope it lasts

TeStUd0: my egts sit at 800 cruising at 65mph in 5th, that's about 3500 rpms
if I get on the gas a lot, and boost, 1400 is readily available

Jordo: he was riding shotgun, but he was too scared to not watch the road.. so much for watching for boost spikes.. my dad likes the turbo, for now.. oh, and all my posts are useless

blufke: I disconnected both harnesses from the distributor so that the car wouldn't start, then turned the motor over quite a few times.. and you're right.. no oil came through. so then I reconnected the harnesses and started the car with the oil line in a plastic bottle, I stopped the car after the oil started shooting into the bottle.. then reconnected the line to the turbo..

I realize that the turbo was probably spinning some during that time, but I'd rather no for sure that oil is getting to the turbo..

ok, an update for the aforementioned hesitative stumbling issue:
here's the thing:
at about 4400 rpms, the car bogs down, and then slowly starts to pick up again, until at about 5500 rpms when vtec kicks in and it's pulling hard again

looking at the fuel and ignition maps using ERM, the UberChip tuning software, I have figured out what the problem is, I just don't know how to fix it..

the basemap for the chip that i'm using is for a b18c1, but my motor is a b17a1. vtec crossover point on a b18c1 is 4400 rpms, as opposed to my 5500 rpms.

when I configured my chip using the software, I moved the crossover point to 5500 rpms, but didn't adjust the fuel and ignition maps accordingly..

the low speed (non-vtec) fuel and ignition maps don't have correct fuel or ignition settings between 4400 and 5500 rpms for my motor because with a crossover point of 4400 rpms, they wouldn't normally be used at all..

thus I need to extrapolate the fuel settings for the 4400 to 5500 rpm range, this part I am able to do without much difficulty, though I'm sure it will still run rich

the hard part is fixing the ignition settings for that range, there is an obvious dip in the timing (I will post a screen shot later) during my 'problem area'

I don't know what the timing should be at these rpms..

If I can find someone with a turbo'd b17a1 who can show me their ignition/fuel maps, I could probably cut and paste some values..
otherwise, I need to either find an experienced tuner in my area who is willing to help me figure out how to use ERM without charging me $2000 to do it, or I need to teach myself how to tune without destroying my motor in the process..

 

Above 4400 rpms the fuel goes extremely rich on P72 program... richer than it actually needs for GS-R. No wonder you run like crap in that range. Start pulling out a few percent fuel in that area, go from there.

The ignition maps are pretty similar... The part throttle cruise part of the maps have the usual 40-42 degree advance all Honda B-series have. While I've never looked at P61 maps, I'm 99% sure you run more final advance on a B17 than B16 or B18C due to the lower compression. I run 30 degrees at the crossover into boost with 9.2:1 CR B18B, then start pulling 0.5 deg/psi. As long as the fuel and EGT is good, you should completely fail to worry about your ignition maps until you have dyno time to tune them.

FYI, I have P28 NA basemap inserted into P72 code for the Z6 boys who are having P72 chips run like complete ***. I'm having a few problems enabling boost on a file I've already edited, but I believe it to be due to changes to the code by ERM and crc issues. I should have it ironed out shortly. The idle fuel pulse is WAY bigger for GS-R than Z6, which is why they bog/hesitate/misfire at idle, and the entire VTEC event is a flood of raw gas into the cylinders. With the "safe" fuel maps ERM generates, it doesn't run well on a Z6.

 

It's my understanding that the "HighSpeed" maps are used when VTEC is engaged, and that the "LowSpeed" maps are used when VTEC is not engaged.
The P72 program that I'm using defaultly enages VTEC at 4400, but with it set to 5500(for my motor), the portion of the "LowSpeed" fuel and ignition maps between 4500 and 5500 are now being used for the first time.. these portions of the maps aren't used at all on a P72 since it switches to the "HighSpeed" maps at 4400..
I'll try to post screen shots tonight illustrating what I think is wrong..

 

UPDATE:

I adjusted the fuel curves last night to make up for the missing area..
then burned the chip and tested it on the butt-dyno.. it ran the same..

so, I adjusted the timing curves by retarding the timing in the areas causing problems..
then burned and tested.. and it runs better, but still not perfect..
under low - partial throttle, it doesn't hesitate like it did before.. it feels a lot closer to 'right'
under full throttle, it still bogs down at 4500 rpms.. so more tuning is in order..

at higher rpms, it pulls pretty hard, especially in lower gears, and the wastegate is still hooked up at the compressor outlet, so the manifold is still only seeing about 5psi
my concern is still that at higher rpms the timing could be too advanced.. from what I understand, knock is very hard to detect at high rpms..

the full throttle launching owns.. a friend of mine has a jetta 1.8T, with a stage 3 turbo kit from APR(audi performance racing). His setup runs peaks at 23 psi, and in 4th, 5th, and 6th, holds 23psi to redline
needless to say, he owns me on the expressway.. but from a stop, the full throttle launching destroys him..
definite props to FTL

 

about turbo break ins. I did some searching and few people said their are no break in periods.

I thought you wanted to break them in so the seals set properly?

I thought greddy recommended a 500 mile period on their kits.

 

I haven't opened up a turbo, or paid much attention to the seals inside it.. but most seals don't need broken in, if anything, they start wearing out right after they're installed..
tires are the only rubber things that I can think of that need broken in.. and that's only because they use a special release agent so that the tire won't stick to the mold..
but who knows, after all, I'm an idiot

 

Latest news:
the bogging down at 4500rpms was being caused by the uberchip software, apparently I was using an older version, and the vtec xover point settings didn't function properly..
now, using the latest version, vtec comes on at 5500 rpms, and the car runs smoothly through all the rpms..
it still needs dyno tuned.. but it's definitely running way better now (still rich though).

 

ive found the bogging is from running about &lt;10:1 or &gt; 15:1, either will give bogging