Hey guys, I’ve been battling this issue for quite some time now, so I’m going to try and reach out to y’all to see if any of you have any ideas.

I bought a b16a2 that hasn’t run in many years and I swapped it into my std hatch. I had to convert to mpfi and I decided to also go OBD1. I bought an engine harness off a guy that has the exact same setup as me and it worked for him when he pulled it. He seems pretty trustworthy. I’m running a chipped p28 that I’m told ran when he took it out of his car. I’ve been trying to start it, trying different tests to see why It won’t start. I’ve never heard it backfire or sputter like it wants to start. It has fuel and spark, so I’m guessing it’s timing. The cranking sounds pretty healthy and as it should sound. I have a new battery in it that is fully charged. A few of the things I’ve done:

- made sure timing was correct with cylinder 1 at tdc and both cams pointed up.
- valve lashed both cams
- tested each spark plug if it has spark. All of them have spark.
- cleaned all fuel injectors (all OBD1)
- distributor is obd1
- thoroughly cleaned all grounds (battery, tranny, valve cover, and thermostat housing)
- installed new tps
- tested continuity with distributor wires to the ecu. All routed as they should be.
- double checked my wiring for the added vtec, O2 sensor, and mpfi.
- tested the compression, but alas it was not great. Lowest I saw was 90 psi but I’m hoping that it has a stuck piston ring or two. I’ve tried putting some oil in each cylinder while cranking to seal the cylinder but it hasn’t made a difference as far as starting.

Also, I’m trying to get the check engine light to work on the dash, but I’ve had no luck. I believe if I could get this working, it could help me diagnose my no start issue. I’ve tried grounding the cel wire from the obd0 to obd1 jumper harness and jumping the service connector (which I found to be on the drivers side in the engine bay). Also, Even when I disconnect the battery for a few hours and then reconnect it, the cel immediately comes on. Is that normal?

Any advice would greatly help. I’m at my wits end with this car and am running out of ideas fast. Any suggestions?

 

Is the fuel fresh? Have you tried using a shot of starting fluid? Is the battery healthy? Have you double checked the firing order? Can you try a different ECU?

 

i got new fuel back in march, so I’m inclined to think that it’s not the fuel. I am pretty low in fuel however, so it might be a good idea to fill it up a little. I haven’t tried a shot of starting fluid. I will try that soon. I just bought the battery and charged it up to make sure it is fully charged. I don’t think it’s the problem.

How would you check firing order? I’ve used a noid light on the injectors and they all seem to be working properly. I potentially might have installed the distributor 180 degrees off, but I’m not very sure because there aren’t any forms showing what that looks like. What would that look like?

I would love to try a different ecu, but I can’t find any to test out. Preferably if like to test one that came from a running car. That is something that could definitely be bad.

 

You can't (easily) install the distributor 180 degrees out as the key is offset. If you try to install it wrong, the distributer will not align properly. Generally I will set the distributer around the middle of the sweep then once the engine is started set the distributer to 16 degrees.

There is a good picture of firing order here: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...m-b16-2278501/

 

When you say 180 out, are we talking about the entire distributor flipped 180 or just the key that has those two prongs?

it looks like my firing order is correct. When I spray the starting fluid, if there’s isn’t any combustion happening, that means timing is still off, right? Any other ideas?

 

Just the two "prongs". If you look closely, they are offset slightly off center as well as the slot in the cam. This is to prevent you from being able to install the distributer 180 degrees out of phase.

At this point I would be looking at common failure points such as the ignitor and coil in the distributer and reverifying physical timing. Ideally, you would use an oscilloscope to check the actual signals but most people don't have one. The engine doesn't really need any sensors other than the distributer timing signal to crank and run. So if it has fuel, there aren't holes in the pistons and you are within the atmosphere of earth, it is highly likely ignition related.

Are you sure this is an OBD1 distributer? The plugs are different so there should be jumpers at the distributer. Also, aftermarket OBD1 distributers are all very suspect and are often bad out of the box. This is often caused by using the cheapest ignitor possible and failing to use thermal grease when it is installed.

 

I’ll take a look at the distributor tonight. The distributor came with the engine, but I think the guy said that he bought it new recently, so it still could be bad. It has obd1 gray plugs so I assume that it’s obd1. I might go ahead and buy another one just to rule the distributor out. It does look a little cheap. Even if the plugs are sparking, could it be a bad distributor?

 

You'd be wasting your time replacing the distributor if your getting spark.

 

i actually replaced the distributor just to make sure and of course it didn’t do anything. I’m pretty stuck on what else I could do. I’ll have to triple check my wiring.

I’m having the issue we’re the CEL stays on and doesn’t blink once I turn the key. This is why I think my wiring might be an issue or my ecu. Typically the cel doesn’t stay on right? I tried wiring the jumper for the cel but it has never blinked for me to see the codes. Any idea why?

 

Ok, I have an update. All last week I still had no idea why the car wouldn’t start, so I left it sitting for nearly a week. I come back to it yesterday to show someone the cranking and it started for the first time very quickly. Of course I was extremely surprised because I didn’t do anything other than connect the negative battery terminal again. Previously I had installed a new $250 autozone distributor for reference.

I come back to it today with only connecting the negative battery terminal and it starts up just like before. I wanted to test where the problem was coming from so I removed the new distributor and put the old one on. No start. I then put the new distributor on. No start! I didn’t change anything other than switching out the distributors and then reverting back to the situation that it did start. Any ideas? I’m so confused!

 

My car did something like that before. I unplugged the MAP sensor and it ran. I'm doubting that's the problem here though since you're swapped.

How are you testing for fuel delivery? A gauge after the filter?

You're still getting spark after the distributor change, right?

 

ill try and unplug the map sensor. Who knows, at this point I’ll try anything.

I haven’t ever tested the fuel pressure, but considering the car ran before the swap perfectly and that the swapped b16 ran recently, I’m inclined to think that it has enough fuel pressure. I can also smell gas when it cranks but doesn’t start. I might add a fuel pressure gauge on the rail soon though.

I still need to check spark, just to make sure, but I tested the plugs multiple times recently. Doesn’t hurt to check again though!

 

I think you should be able to start the engine with nearly every sensor unplugged only leaving the tps and distributor connected. It should start in open loop.
You could try unplugging one sensor at a time then try starting it. If it doesn't start with the one you unplugged, plug it back in and unplug a different one then so on. If still doesn't start with being down to only the tps and dizzy plugged in then I would check for a bad ground, especially the one on the thermostat housing. Remove and Clean all the grounds connections to bare metal in your engine bay. There's only a few. Also look for bad wires going to the distributor. Could also try moving the harness around to see if there's a broken or fragile wire and try starting it?

 

Alright, I’m stumped again. I just replaced the distributor again (2 times it’s been replaced). No change at all, just cranks. However, I let the car sit with the battery unplugged for a day or two and tried to start it and it sounded like it was going to start for a second or so! It’s done this twice so far. Two other times I let it sit for up to a week and it started and ran okay (with a CEL). What would cause it to start or even sputter for a second and then nothing at all after having it sit for a few days?

Could it be the ecu? The cel stays on but doesn’t blink with the jumper. However, it’s started a couple of times so that’s confusing me. How do I know if the ecu is officially bad?

 

Bump

 

It could possibly be the ecu, I wouldn't be a fan of running a chipped ecu if you have no idea what actual fuel map it is running or if the work inside it was done well. I would try to hunt down a P30 ecu just for reassurance but that's just me...
Almost at this point anything is possible. Should try just going through everything making a check list and testing every wire and sensor with a multimeter narrowing it down to a solution. Inspect the harness with a fine tooth comb looking for anything shorting or loose connections. Also could clean every plug with proper electrical contact cleaner.
So you have Air (clean filter), all plugs connected, grounds clean and tight, confirmed spark from each plug on its own wire, confirmed fuel, wiring conversion is 100% correct, using a td44u or td68u dizzy? Maybe check the inside the ecu and make sure nothing is loose or looks damaged. Did you try unplugging each sensor and then try starting it? Just wondering if one is shorting out and causing the issue..
Usually in the end it's always one simple thing.
Lastly, keep you old distributor for back up, they are not cheap and can be rebuilt minus the nightmare bearing if that goes bad.

 

Fuel wash would mostly explain no start, bad compression, and it magically starting after sitting for a week.

 

Fuel wash would be a bit of a concern but wouldn't you think that it would start again after going from the new dist. back to the old dist then again back to the new one? Maybe the plug wires got installed incorrectly on the dist cap when switching back and forth?
Just for confirmation, op is your plug seq. correct #1 at lower left, #3 upper left, #4 upper right and #2 at lower right on the cap?

 

Not especially, at least based on my experiences with a D with bad (leaking) injectors. Once the rings washed out one had to pull the plugs and let it dry out for threeish days before it would reliably start.
The fact that it's run a few times seems to point to the engine being set up correctly enough.
Though it could also just be that the ECU is all kinds of flakey.

 

I don’t know if this will help anybody as to why their car might not be starting, but I have an update. I’ve now been able to consistently get the car to start. I don’t know exactly what the problem was, but I know the motor has sat for a few years so I’m wondering if the compression was messing with it wanting to start. Anyway, I got it to start again and I let it idle for about 10 minutes with no issues other than idle (which I think is just a timing thing with the distributor). After that I have started it a few times and revved it high to try and remove any carbon buildup and potentially stuck piston rings. With just a little tuning I think it will run well. Thanks for all your help!

 

Good to hear this ended with success to the mysterious issue. Hope you get it running good and have some fun with it without any further problems. 🍻