Alright so we’re close to finishing the build. Car starts so tuner advised me to get a timing light to make sure it’s good. So car idles at 1250-1300. I have adjustable cam gears since they came with the car. With car off the top markers are top and I marked the middle notches closest to each other. With the car on and the timing light set on 5 they line up

with the timing light set on 16 this is what I get

the dizzy is advanced all the way to the fire wall so do you think it’s a timing error or is it the high idle throwing it off?

here’s a pic of the gears with the car off

 

Do you have the ECU jumper in place to fix the timing?

 

I have s300 and smanager on the laptop!

 

... and you have selected the "Set Ignition Timing" option in the "Online" tab ? Also, there should be FOUR marks on the cam gears... essentially one at the 9 o'clock and one at the 3 o'clock position and the group of these should all fall on the same horizontal line when the camshafts are at TDC. Do you have a lower timing cover on the engine so that you can see where the TDC mark on the crank pulley corresponds to the pointer on the cover when you are attempting to check the ignition timing ?

 

I don’t have a lower timing cover. I did get with my tuner and he told me he will get it situated in smanager today

 

GET a lower timing cover. There is absolutely no good reason not to have one... so set it up right and your life will be easier.

 

You realize he's pointing the timing light at the cam gears and has no idea what he's doing right?

 

which is why I posted in here. This is fairly new to me. I used to be a “drive it and change oil” guy but I’ve decided to dig in a little deeper. I’ll try and find a lower timing cover in the time being. Thanks.

 

I do... and interestingly enough, this method MAY also work. I haven't tried to reproduce my hypothesis on this yet, but my suspicion is that IF the crank pulley TDC mark points at the lower crank gear tab, and the engine is in proper mechanical time, then the cam gear TDC markings would also be aligned. When the distributor timing is out, the markings on the cam gears would not be aligned. So if my theory is correct, this new guy may have taught us all something, even if it was by accident.

 

I don't think I understand the OP's issue. If the marks line up at 5, but not 16, adjust the distributor?

I think this method might work too, but the problem is still that there's no lower cover and that needs to be fixed for a number of reasons. There's also not as accurate of a resolution on the cam gears since the cams rotate half as fast. Otherwise, good on the OP for trying this out. Improvise adapt overcome.

 

I agree that a lower cover should be installed... for protection from debris in the lower timing area as well as the ease of checking mechanical and distributor timing. Now, thinking outside the box for a minute... if you point a timing light at the crank pulley looking for a specific mark, the timing light illuminates when the mark corresponds with TDC (assuming you have a electronic or "dial-back" timing light and your distributor timing is set at 16*). Now in a perfect world, your cam gears would be at TDC at the exact same time as the crankshaft is, so pointing the timing light at the cam gears should illuminate them at TDC as well... and if the distributor timing is incorrect, then the cam gears would be out of alignment and adjusting the distributor should bring the gear timing marks to TDC. I agree with you that this is a more difficult method because of too many mechanical variables as well as the reduced accuracy due to the lower resolution, but if it is all you got at the time... hmmm.

 

I just timed a zc without the timing cover the same way. Lock ignition timing, set the timing light to 16. Move the dizzy until the cam gears line up. Send it on it's way.

 

In smanager lock the timing at 0 and then you can use the cam gears to set the timing

 

If the engine even runs at zero.

just use a dial back light and do just like you would on the crank pulley tdc mark.

I tried this just to see how it worked when swapping cams the other week. It’s okay if your idle is nice and stable. Kinda inaccurate if you’ve got lumpy cams or are just getting the thing fired up for the first time. I’d still wayyy prefer to just have the covers.

 

I AGREE 100% here... but if you "had to" set timing without a lower timing cover, I think we have come up with a solution.

 

Sure. It works okay.

Good for sanity checking mechanical timing too

 

I had to do this on a motor with big cams and an fluidamper.
I didnt have a lower cover but it also wouldnt have helped as the pulley is a lot bigger and wouldnt line up with the cover pointer.

You just need to give it a little throttle to stay running but only takes a couple seconds.