Cam gears timing with stock cams
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Cam gears timing with stock cams
Hello,
I have a B18 with a B16 head and I have lowerd the compression with a thicker head Gasket. 060inch.
The car is running like the timing is off because of the thicker head Gasket. I have buy now cam gears is there a calculator to set the timing like stock?
Regards
Antoni
I have a B18 with a B16 head and I have lowerd the compression with a thicker head Gasket. 060inch.
The car is running like the timing is off because of the thicker head Gasket. I have buy now cam gears is there a calculator to set the timing like stock?
Regards
Antoni
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 284
Likes: 43
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
You should put a normal head gasket on it
Lowering the compression that way is killing quench. I doubt youll be able to run any more boost or ignition advance than you could with stock CR.
Lowering the compression that way is killing quench. I doubt youll be able to run any more boost or ignition advance than you could with stock CR.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
What does quench means?
The motor is build I'm not taking it appart.
Who knows how I can set my cam gears correct to Oem specs?
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
Quench is the distance from the flat part of the piston to the flat part of the head. A typical quench would be 0.030-0.040".
Running a 0.060" head gasket has put your quench well into no mans land, at that point you don't even have any quench.
Too much quench distance like you have can actually cause detonation.
You know how much you've changed the distance from the cams to the crankshaft. You can measure the radius of the cam gear and figure out what angle of cam retard you need to get back to stock timing. Remember soh-cah-toa from math class? Make a right triangle with these 2 measurements, you have the opposite side length (change in head height) and adjacent side length (radius of cam gear). Retard angle = x, tan(x)=opposite/adjacent
Running a 0.060" head gasket has put your quench well into no mans land, at that point you don't even have any quench.
Too much quench distance like you have can actually cause detonation.
You know how much you've changed the distance from the cams to the crankshaft. You can measure the radius of the cam gear and figure out what angle of cam retard you need to get back to stock timing. Remember soh-cah-toa from math class? Make a right triangle with these 2 measurements, you have the opposite side length (change in head height) and adjacent side length (radius of cam gear). Retard angle = x, tan(x)=opposite/adjacent
Last edited by MotorMouth93; Aug 5, 2021 at 08:15 AM. Reason: fixing my math, i don't remember sohcahtoa apparently :(
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
I was looking at the thickness of that gasket and that is just... wow.. 
. If I may ask, what was your reasoning for going for that thick of a head gasket? Especially on an NA platform?
. If I may ask, what was your reasoning for going for that thick of a head gasket? Especially on an NA platform?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,048
Likes: 1,244
From: The South - Roll Tide !!!
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
This method won't be exact... but it will be darn close.
Rotate the crankshaft until the cam gear horizontal markings are at TDC. When you stop there, the crank pulley TDC mark should still be to the right of the TDC pointer on the lower timing cover. Loosen the adjustment bolts on one of the two cam gears, and using a box-end wrench or ratchet/socket, hold the cam itself in position with the center cam gear bolt. If the cam moves slightly when the adjustment bolts are loosened, move the cam gear back to the "zero" position and hold it there. Now is the trick: While holding the cam in place with a slight pressure toward tight (clockwise), slowly turn the crank pulley counter-clockwise until the TDC mark on the crank pulley lines up with the pointer on the lower timing cover. Notate the "retard" position on the cam gear and tighten down the adjustment bolts. I say notate visually first just in case the cam moves... then you can move it back to this position if it moved slightly during the final step in this process. If you feel like you held the cam very still during these steps, make the same setting change on the other cam gear and you should be golden. If not, reset the original cam gear to zero and repeat the process I have outlined.
Rotate the crankshaft until the cam gear horizontal markings are at TDC. When you stop there, the crank pulley TDC mark should still be to the right of the TDC pointer on the lower timing cover. Loosen the adjustment bolts on one of the two cam gears, and using a box-end wrench or ratchet/socket, hold the cam itself in position with the center cam gear bolt. If the cam moves slightly when the adjustment bolts are loosened, move the cam gear back to the "zero" position and hold it there. Now is the trick: While holding the cam in place with a slight pressure toward tight (clockwise), slowly turn the crank pulley counter-clockwise until the TDC mark on the crank pulley lines up with the pointer on the lower timing cover. Notate the "retard" position on the cam gear and tighten down the adjustment bolts. I say notate visually first just in case the cam moves... then you can move it back to this position if it moved slightly during the final step in this process. If you feel like you held the cam very still during these steps, make the same setting change on the other cam gear and you should be golden. If not, reset the original cam gear to zero and repeat the process I have outlined.
Trending Topics
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 284
Likes: 43
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
Probably is going to turbo it and thing "boost likes low compression". I still run into people that think this way today...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 10,048
Likes: 1,244
From: The South - Roll Tide !!!
LOL
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 284
Likes: 43
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
Quench is the distance from the flat part of the piston to the flat part of the head. A typical quench would be 0.030-0.040".
Running a 0.060" head gasket has put your quench well into no mans land, at that point you don't even have any quench.
Too much quench distance like you have can actually cause detonation.
You know how much you've changed the distance from the cams to the crankshaft. You can measure the radius of the cam gear and figure out what angle of cam retard you need to get back to stock timing. Remember soh-cah-toa from math class? Make a right triangle with these 2 measurements, you have the opposite side length (change in head height) and adjacent side length (radius of cam gear). Retard angle = x, tan(x)=opposite/adjacent
Running a 0.060" head gasket has put your quench well into no mans land, at that point you don't even have any quench.
Too much quench distance like you have can actually cause detonation.
You know how much you've changed the distance from the cams to the crankshaft. You can measure the radius of the cam gear and figure out what angle of cam retard you need to get back to stock timing. Remember soh-cah-toa from math class? Make a right triangle with these 2 measurements, you have the opposite side length (change in head height) and adjacent side length (radius of cam gear). Retard angle = x, tan(x)=opposite/adjacent
Hello Thank you for you replay.
First I'm on the wrong page needed to be on the turbo one.
The reason I have used this headgasket is because I have used my b16 wiseco pistons on my new b18 engine with the be b16 cilinder head and with the 060inch hesdgasket to get the 9:1 compression.
I need to have this compression to get over 650hp.
Is this possible of do I really get other pistons with a lower compression spec and run the b18 with a stock head Gasket and with a B18 head?
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
That .060" gasket will easily put him under 8.5:1 or lower, which isn't a good idea regardless, unless the cylinder head has been milled down past the service line. :-(
Better to get 10.0:1 pistons and rods to work with this, and not lower the compression. Get the right turbocharger and have it mapped properly and you're good. There's no advantage to run lower compression down to 9.0:1 unless 3 exceptions apply .
1) Your tuner (mapper) is not that good with tuning and needs a very safe window to tune with. (Of course the right hardware/software combination package will help with that)
2) Your fuel that you plan to use for that HP is very low, (at last 98RON or 93OCT is going to work for most street setups),
3) You've milled the cylinder head to extreme level in which a new head gasket is the least of your worries.
Better to get 10.0:1 pistons and rods to work with this, and not lower the compression. Get the right turbocharger and have it mapped properly and you're good. There's no advantage to run lower compression down to 9.0:1 unless 3 exceptions apply .
1) Your tuner (mapper) is not that good with tuning and needs a very safe window to tune with. (Of course the right hardware/software combination package will help with that)
2) Your fuel that you plan to use for that HP is very low, (at last 98RON or 93OCT is going to work for most street setups),
3) You've milled the cylinder head to extreme level in which a new head gasket is the least of your worries.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
That .060" gasket will easily put him under 8.5:1 or lower, which isn't a good idea regardless, unless the cylinder head has been milled down past the service line. :-(
Better to get 10.0:1 pistons and rods to work with this, and not lower the compression. Get the right turbocharger and have it mapped properly and you're good. There's no advantage to run lower compression down to 9.0:1 unless 3 exceptions apply .
1) Your tuner (mapper) is not that good with tuning and needs a very safe window to tune with. (Of course the right hardware/software combination package will help with that)
2) Your fuel that you plan to use for that HP is very low, (at last 98RON or 93OCT is going to work for most street setups),
3) You've milled the cylinder head to extreme level in which a new head gasket is the least of your worries.
Better to get 10.0:1 pistons and rods to work with this, and not lower the compression. Get the right turbocharger and have it mapped properly and you're good. There's no advantage to run lower compression down to 9.0:1 unless 3 exceptions apply .
1) Your tuner (mapper) is not that good with tuning and needs a very safe window to tune with. (Of course the right hardware/software combination package will help with that)
2) Your fuel that you plan to use for that HP is very low, (at last 98RON or 93OCT is going to work for most street setups),
3) You've milled the cylinder head to extreme level in which a new head gasket is the least of your worries.
That .060" gasket will easily put him under 8.5:1 or lower, which isn't a good idea regardless, unless the cylinder head has been milled down past the service line. :-(
Better to get 10.0:1 pistons and rods to work with this, and not lower the compression. Get the right turbocharger and have it mapped properly and you're good. There's no advantage to run lower compression down to 9.0:1 unless 3 exceptions apply .
1) Your tuner (mapper) is not that good with tuning and needs a very safe window to tune with. (Of course the right hardware/software combination package will help with that)
2) Your fuel that you plan to use for that HP is very low, (at last 98RON or 93OCT is going to work for most street setups),
3) You've milled the cylinder head to extreme level in which a new head gasket is the least of your worries.
Better to get 10.0:1 pistons and rods to work with this, and not lower the compression. Get the right turbocharger and have it mapped properly and you're good. There's no advantage to run lower compression down to 9.0:1 unless 3 exceptions apply .
1) Your tuner (mapper) is not that good with tuning and needs a very safe window to tune with. (Of course the right hardware/software combination package will help with that)
2) Your fuel that you plan to use for that HP is very low, (at last 98RON or 93OCT is going to work for most street setups),
3) You've milled the cylinder head to extreme level in which a new head gasket is the least of your worries.
Hello,
The fuel is whole problem here in The Netherlands It is not good that is the reason for the lower compression.
I have now the stock obd1 ecu, now a want a stand alone with knock sensor etc maybe then I didn't need to lower the compression but **** it, is now saver I olmost don't drive that car onlye for fun.
No I don't think it is not much lower then 9:1
See the picture
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 284
Likes: 43
Re: Cam gears timing with stock cams
You need different pistons.
If you try to get that CR by using the head gasket you are eliminating quench, which makes it more likely to knock.
Basically you will end up with the lower power output of the low compression, without the knock tolerance to allow for more boost or timing. Worst of both worlds.
If you get low compression pistons and use a normal head gasket you will have the quench and the low CR. This is what will allow you to run a decent amount of boost of low octane fuel.
You may also want to look into water injection.
If you try to get that CR by using the head gasket you are eliminating quench, which makes it more likely to knock.
Basically you will end up with the lower power output of the low compression, without the knock tolerance to allow for more boost or timing. Worst of both worlds.
If you get low compression pistons and use a normal head gasket you will have the quench and the low CR. This is what will allow you to run a decent amount of boost of low octane fuel.
You may also want to look into water injection.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
94gsr
Tech / Misc
9
Jan 17, 2004 02:21 AM