I have a 2000 CR-V with about 208,000 miles on it. Recently it started sputtering under load and it feels like it's losing spark. It seems directly related to load on the engine. For example, when at idle the engine will be smooth but if I put the AC on then it starts sputtering/missing. Also, when downshifting around a corner, once I start accelerating it'll start missing but if I accelerate hard it misses a lot. I had a distributor from a junkyard car (donor car had 240,000 miles on it, so about 32,000 more than mine) and I tried swapping the igniters. With the other igniter, the car behaves the same except it did quit on me on the way to work one morning. I swapped the igniters back and now it sputters like before but hasn't quit yet. One clue I should mention is that once the car quit, after about 15 minutes I was able to get it restarted and drive it home. So, either I got lucky or maybe the faulty part misbehaves with heat and once cooled off starts behaving again.

Distributor cap, rotor and spark plugs are all new OEM (within 10,000 miles). Spark plug wires are original.

I did some reading on this forum and it seems that the likely culprit is the igniter, but I have a couple of questions before I buy a replacement.

1. How do I know if the coil is acting up (versus the igniter)?
2. The OEM Honda part is about $300 and a good aftermarket is about $150. I'm a huge fan of OEM Honda, but I don't have a lot of extra cash right now so I'm considering the aftermarket. It's a Standard LX-875. Have any of you used this part with good success?

Thanks in advance!

 

Bump

 

Typically when your igniter starts to fail your failure mode is stalling once the engine is warm. I think your issue is the spark plug wires. Just like the plugs, cap, and rotor, spark plug wires are a wear item. If your wires really do have 21 years and nearly 210k miles on them, they're probably toast. I had a Camaro years ago that had that stuttering/inconsistent power delivery under load and it was the wires. You can get a nice set of NGK wires off Ebay for 50 or 60 bucks I think (I haven't checked in a while, but this is what I remember from my '01 CR-V and '95 Civic). NGK are about the only non-Honda wire I'd recommend for a Honda, and in truth I think they make the OEM sets. I'd start there before buying a new ignitor that'll be 3 or 4 times the price.

There's a pretty simple test to identify spark plug wires with cracked and worn insulation. When it's dark out, start your car and let it idle with the hood open. Take a spray bottle full of water and mist it over the wire set (set the spray nozzle for a fine mist, not a stream). If your wire insulation is done you'll see little arcs and sparks through the water cloud. It's pretty neat looking! Keep in mind, if you don't see arcs and sparks it doesn't mean your wires are fine. Check the portion that extends down into the head for white spots or burns. These can be very tiny, about the size of a pencil point sometimes. When the rubber plug boot starts to crack and fail the spark will arc from the boot to the spark plug well inside the head.

 

ThisIsMatt, that's a good thought and I haven't checked the wires. I am familiar with the spray bottle test, though, and I'll do that and respond back with the results. You're exactly right about how neat it is to watch that fireworks show at night. Thank-you for the suggestion. Another reason I was leaning towards the igniter as the culprit is because the car quit on the way to work that one morning when I had the "donor car" igniter installed. As I sat on the side of the road, I would try to start the car every few minutes. It would fire up, but by the time I released the emergency brake (manual trans) it would quit again. Finally, I let it sit about 15 minutes and then it restarted and I was able to drive it home. To me, this seems to support the idea that once the car cooled off (including the igniter) that it would behave again. Of course, it would still "stutter/hiccup" during acceleration on the way home but at least I didn't have to get towed. Maybe I have bad wires and a bad igniter...LoL Would a failing coil behave this way or do they just die and that's the end of it?

 

Knowing that your ignitor came from a donor vehicle with even more miles than yours, it's very likely both your ignitor and your wires are bad, yeah. Your description of it dying, not starting, not starting, then starting for a bit and finally dying again does definitely sound pretty classic ignitor. I've had ignitors fail on both my '90 civic and my '95 civic, and I replaced it proactively on my '01 CR-V, so I'm pretty familiar with that failure mode. I've never had a coil fail so I can't really tell you how those flake out.

One last thing to consider is the main relay behind the glove box. Their failure pattern is similar to the ignitors, but the main difference is when the main relay is in failure mode, you lose both spark and fuel. If your car shuts off and won't restart but you still have fuel pressure, your main relay isn't the problem.

A word about cheap ignitors (or ignition modules...same thing); from my experiences they tend to work, but they really don't work long. If you really need to get this fixed and you're short on cash, you can buy a cheapie off Ebay or something but plan to buy a quality one within probably 10-15k miles. I remember finding my CR-V ignitor, a Honda unit I found NOS on Ebay for about $160. At the time that was a pretty good deal. I replaced my factory original one at 150k miles and the new one I put in was running just fine at 185k when I sold the car. If you throw a cheap one in just to get it working, start saving and keep your eyes peeled for a steal.

 

ThisisMatt, your experiences are much like mine and my name is Matt too. LoL

I misted the plug wires last night after dark and they did arc so they are bad. One in particular that was resting against the valve cover arced a lot more than the others, so I slightly rotated the plug boot to pull the loom of wires away from the valve cover so now it's not touching. I remisted again, heavily, and the amount of arcing dropped significantly but I could still see small arcs here and there. Driving into work this morning, the hiccups/stuttering weren't as bad, but by dumb luck the air temps dropped about 20 degrees last night and the humidity was gone. It's been mid-80's lately with high humidity and the st-t-t-t-t-tuttering seems a lot worse under these conditions. I'll get new wires on order. I get a slight discount at the local dealer because I do a fair amount of side work so I'll just get OEM Honda wires.

I also think you're correct that I might have bad plug wires AND a bad igniter. I was hoping for a better report on the lifespan of an aftermarket igniter, though, but others on the forums have made similar comments. The Standard part listed in my initial question has a two year warranty. Thank-you for the confirmation that the symptoms I'm having support the theory of a bad igniter. I wish there was a more fool-proof test but it's looking more and more like this is the culprit Great minds think alike: I already searched for an OEM part on Ebay as well as Facebook Marketplace but unfortunately struck out. Maybe this forum has a Wanted To Buy section where I can post a request? I'll wait to see how the car behaves once the new wires are on. Maybe I'll get lucky and new wires will take care of the problem. An OEM Honda igniter would be my first choice but they are pricey.

Main relay: you're correct about this and I had that part fail on my wife's old Accord. She pulled into a parking lot, shut the car off and it would not restart...no spark and no fuel pressure either. So weird. Replacing the main relay fixed it and we ended up driving it to 300k miles before selling it. That was a great car.

 

"Spark plug wires are original."

Such is WAY overdue for replacement. Start with the basics before exploring the expensive solutions that will never work with old tired wires...

 

I installed new OEM plug wires a few hundred miles ago and the s-t-t-t-t-t-t-uttering is 100% gone. Great suggestion on replacing the wires and this is a good reminder to always check the basics first. I learned that from my dad (retired mechanic) many years ago but I guess when the car finally quit on me that one morning I figured it "had" to be the igniter and not the wires. We also did a leak-down test before replacing the wires but it didn't reveal any "smoking gun", so I'm going to consider that a win since nothing blatantly bad showed up. On a side note, the oil consumption seems to have gone down too. I'll know more after a couple thousand miles, and I'll report back, but I've been adding about 1/2 quart every 400-500 miles and I'm almost at 500 since the wire change and haven't added any yet and the oil level is just a touch below the full mark. It looks like it's still using some but so far appears to be using much less. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

That's great news also-Matt! Hopefully you're on the way to 300k miles now with nothing more than 2 or 3 lower engine mount replacements!

 

So far the only mount I replaced is the one on the driver's side near the crankshaft pulley.

 

Yeah, that's the guy. It's junk, even the Honda part. After mine failed in my '95 Civic, my brother's '99 Integra, and my '01 CR-V I decided you know what? I'm gonna put in a urethane one! That thing will never fail! I also immediately realized why the Honda design is a weak little set of rubber spindles. The urethane one sent every engine vibration right into the cabin. After about 10k miles of that I was back to the junky rubber design. Lesser of two evils.

 

Does this explain possible rich condition?

 

ThisIsMatt, that's an interesting find about the mount and how it directed vibration into the cabin. Like you said, they chose the lesser of two evils. Speaking as an engineer, I can tell you that sometimes I want to make everything perfect, but in the end everything is a compromise whether by design or budget constraints.

starchland, that's a great question and I'm not sure what to think about the rich condition at this point. I've smelled a rich exhaust smell out of the tailpipe of that car but maybe it can be chalked up to poor combustion as a result of weak spark from worn out plug wires. I dunno, but I'll continue to monitor it. The tail pipe is still black with soot so I know I'm not imagining it, but I'll be curious if it starts to clean itself out.

As always, THANK-YOU for following this thread and for all the help and suggestions. There is more to learn here and I'll keep you guys posted on updates. I'm especially curious to see what the oil consumption is after a few thousand miles. Maybe the rings were losing seal when the plug wires were arcing.

 

Your name's Matt and you're an engineer? This is gettin weird my guy... And yep, as another engineer I'm well acquainted with the world of compromises in design. Hell, engineer's credo: "Good, fast, cheap...pick 2".

This is a pretty round-about connection between the bad spark plug wires and oil consumption, but I would suggest it isn't too far-fetched to think the unburnt fuel left over from a weak spark was washing down the piston walls and causing oil dilution. Oil dilution lowers oil viscosity as the concentration of gasoline in the oil raises while also making the oil burn more easily. The two together would make the oil both more difficult for the piston rings to squeegee from the combustion chamber walls and also more likely to flash and leave the combustion chamber through the exhaust as soot.

If that isn't it...

 

Brother Matt,

I couldn't have said it better myself! The two oil analysis reports I have both reported heavy fuel dilution so I'll know for sure in a couple thousand miles if our theory is correct. If tested, the oil I'm driving now should show up with high fuel dilution, so a true test would be after a fresh oil change. I run Amsoil 10W-30 Signature Series with the Amsoil extended life filter and have a couple months to go before I'm due for a change. I'm not sure if I can wait that long, though. : )

What concentration did you pursue? I went M.E.

On a side note, I love that saying and always wanted to hang this sign at my desk.

ThisIsAlsoMatt

 

I stared in the Civil track but wound up Mechanical in the end. I was a mechanic for 5 or 6 years prior to going back to school and really wanted to do something different, but the longer I was in college, the more people said, "With your background, why aren't you in the Mechanical Engineering path?". And so it was. Switched sophomore year and that was the last time I slept well or felt good about myself until I finally earned that god damn piece of paper. Now I just wrench as a hobby and it's much more fun than when I did it for a living.

I'll be very eager to her the results if you get an oil analysis on a clean oil change! Post the results if you remember to and have the time!

That is a great sign! I used to have this flow chart on my toolbox when I was still in the shop. Always brought a smile to my face.

 

LoL on the flow chart...never saw that one before! All engineers love flow charts and that's one of the best. Life is short, so I'm glad you were able to follow your passion and wound up doing something you enjoy and can now monkey around in the garage on your own time. I'll keep you fellas posted on updates...

 

Update: I just added a half quart of oil this weekend and it's been almost 1000 miles since I last added (average previous interval was approximately 400 miles per one-half quart). If I sent an oil sample out, I'm pretty sure it would still come back with heavy fuel dilution, so I would expect the oil consumption to continue to decrease. I have about 5000 miles to go before the next oil change, so we'll see what happens.