I’m currently building a eg hatch and I had a b20 turbo in the car before but I ended up cracking a sleeve before I could send it to golden eagle, i currently have another b20b block and a b18c1 block and debating which one would be better for my build, I’m trying to do a high boost build, I currently have ACL race bearings, arp head studs and a block guard for both blocks and also have a gsr oil pump for both. I have about a 5k budget left and was wondering what block you guys think would be a better fit for my build, rn it’s going to be non vtec turbo but I plan to find a b16b head off a type r eventually and make it vtec in the future. On old b20b block I was running 7 lbs of boost at 237hp but block was bone stock this time i will have head studs and a couple extra goodies like brand new gaskets all the way around and the block guard for extra safety. Turbo can go up to 25lbs of boost comfortably, not a cheap turbo kit

 

Hmmm, that's a good question. Wonder why someone hasn't looking into this before?

 

If you're not even going over 300WHP, then use the B18C and don't bother sleeving it. Get a good set of rods, pistons, fresh gaskets and studs, call it a day.

Then you don't have to worry about VTEC conversion later either.


Edit: Also do NOT use or rely on a block guard with the B20, especially not one of the guards that only goes around the top of the cylinder and not the full length. It does nothing to strengthen the weak point of the sleeves on those engines. It would be more problematic than anything.

 

300 is just what I had the b20 I had in it before at cause it was bone stock block and head, Im trying to go around 600 to the wheels

 

If you're serious about 600WHP then use the B18C and get it sleeved.

I would not use the B20 for a goal that high.

Don't forget that if you already have both the B18C block and B20, you could just get the B18C sleeved to 84mm once the sleeves are installed. You could then install the 89mm crank you have from the B20, and then you'd have a 2.0L GSR engine.

 

Thats what I’ve been told but I just wanted to get a couple more people’s thoughts on it. Do you think I should get the block sleeved or should I get css added to the block, it’s not gonna be a daily but it’s gonna get drove quite a bit and I’ve herd that sleeved blocks be having over heating issues

 

600WHP is right on the limit of what I'd recommend for CSS. Once you account for shipping, and return shipping, it would only cost probably another $200-$300 or so to sleeve the engine vs CSS, so I'd go with proper ductile iron sleeves.

As long as the sleeves you get have ports available for coolant, which both Golden Eagle and Darton sleeves do, then you should be fine as long as your rad/fan/shroud combo is good.

 

Okay so sleeving sounds like the way cause I have a aftermarket mishimoto half radiator already installed, stock fan and shroud but I’m going to be heat wrapping a couple things like the exhaust and will get a heat shield for the turbo so I will see if I gotta upgrade the fan. If I do sleeve I’m going to be sending block to golden eagle, I personally trust them a little more than darton but my boy has a turbo b16 with darton sleeves so ik they can be good if installed right, thanks tho think ima just do what u said and get the crank from the b20 put it in the b18 and I already planned on getting some cp pistons so when I send the block to golden eagle with the pistons I’ll have them bore it to 84mm

 

You will 100% have to upgrade the fan, I promise you. I highly recommend you buy this fan, specifically - SPAL #30102029

It's also imperative to have a good shroud, and you will also need the 40 amp relay kit to properly run that SPAL fan. Do not try to skimp on the fan or half *** it. Go-Autoworks sells a shroud for a half rads, there's probably other companies as well.

 

My CSS sent to and returned which included having the blocked bored and jet cleaned was around 880 total. I chatted with Darton and it was going to be 1500-2000 for the equivalent work. A HP CSS B18c1 81.5 block is rated for 850whp and many people have done well over 1000whp. Both css and sleeves are great options. My build started out as a max goal of around 600whp goal , that slowly changed lol now I’m going for 800-900

 

If you go the sleeve route (which is more expensive than CSS, but more reliable) I’d stay at 81mm bore or up to 82 or maybe 83mm. That way you have enough material left if you ever need to bore it out again in case something fails such as an oil pump or piston ring, and you can’t only hone the block and need to bore it out. At 84mm, there isn’t much room left to bore. Only up to about 85mm is the max on B series blocks for the most part.
The added displacement from going with 84mm could give you a slight power increase, but since you are turbocharging it anyways, you don’t need the extra displacement.

 

Why is it 100% sure that an upgraded fan is needed- do you mean because the sleeved block would be closed deck?
I think there are some people on stock radiators and stock radiator fans while turbocharged.

 

Trying to run a 600+WHP turbo Honda on a stock half rad in any part of the world that isn't Antarctica will not suffice. Much less in summer months. Much less the fact that these stock fans are now also ~30 years old.

If you can spend several grand to turbo the car, you can spend a few hundred for a proper cooling system.

 

You might have just sold me on CSS. I need to figure out the limits for stock sleeves.

 

About 400whp or so from my past experience with these engines. But the power level really only is considered if a proper engine assembly has been accounted for. I sleeved because of the type of racing I do, which was highly abusive (street/circuit use). Sleeving is your best option if you decide to go this route as you will be able to rebuild with it even if something happens. Not so much so with the CSS, but the CSS does have its uses. It's still better than a standard block guard.

That's right. I would honestly send them the entire lower end. (Block, rods, pistons, crankshaft), and let them assemble the whole thing. They have a workmanship guarantee and you'll have peace of mind knowing that it was balance and blueprinted properly. You even get a full blueprint sheet on what they did. For the extra money, I think that it's worth looking into. But you need to call them and let them know what's going on and your goals.

 

I would go at least CSS for >500. I toyed around with some pretty aggressive timing on 76mm stock sleeves on the Z6 and it did very well when the clutch was holding. Lol! Greatest wtq measured on the dyno was upwards of 370 when the clutch finally caught. Had I went with a heavier duty clutch, it may have been more.

 

$1375 + shipping for CSS and that does not include balancing of the rotating assembly

Hmmm

 

Not sure what you added up to get that price, if you're including shortblock assembly or something...

 

Yes this includes them putting the shortblock together and ordering "race" bearings.

 

CSS is absolutely worth it. You're basically doubling the horsepower capabilities of the block itself. I've popped stock sleeves around 450whp and it sucks. It's not fun having to hunt down another block and rebuild it all over again.

If you can assemble the shortblock yourself you can save a good chunk of change. Either way it's worth the expense if you're intending to build a good turbo engine.

Full sleeves are a good option too but it depends on your intended use with the vehicle and how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. Most people go with CSS because it's the middle of the road between cheapest and best. For majority of applications it's more than sufficient.

 

ls block - 89mm crank with css is what id run for 600. Above 600whp youll need a 3000$ to 5000$ gearset soon anyway...
Darton sleeves + gearset is the next level.

 

yep. I started breaking gears over 600whp. Also when going much over 600 you need to change bearings tolerances which most don’t do and will run into problems

 

That's putting it lightly. Lol!