Simple I have a fully built forged bottom F20b with a fully built h22 (p13) head.. I currently have a Garrett .57trim 63 a/r turbo about to get installed.. but my tuner is telling me it will be a limiting factor.. I am looking for around 450-500 hp but keep good throttle response and power throughout the band..

86mm bore brings the 2.0 to just under 2.1 liters and the aries pistons are high domes and clock in at 10.5:1 after the oversized cometic HG and this will be a 93 pumpgas car

Just toss me some options and benefits of each and I'll weigh the cost/value I appreciate any input I have done a lot of research but that lead me to the .57trim my tuner doesn't like.. so now I'm just listening..

His recommendation was a 6268 precision or a BW SX369

 

For 500 whp on 93 Octane on that engine combination, you want a 60 - 65 lb/min turbo. A Precision 6062/S362 SX-E/GTW 3684 will do the job. The S369 is way too big.
Look for any new generation turbo in the 60 - 62mm category (including Comp and Turbonetics TNX) as this will give you room to grow in case you want to run E85 at a later stage.

In terms of value the Borg Warner SX-E stuff is hard to beat or a journal bearing PTE or GTW Garrett. The BW S257 SX-E may also work and spool faster but the larger turbine wheel of the S3xx family tends to work better with VTEC engines that need high-rpm breathing.

I'm assuming you'll be using a decent rpm range with the F20B/H22 combo

 

Yeah, she has a forged and balanced bottom along with a lightweight valvetrain so her red line should be safe till 9000+ but she will live a most of her life between 5-8k so that's where I need my power I have a 4 Port Mac solanoid and boost control so I'm hoping I can build boost fast and have it kick in full bore at about 5-5500 rpm I'm looking to hit full boost right as the vtec hits.. I want that high cam love...

That's said what would you suggest. And I figured my tuner was thinking too big .. I won't ever do e85 but at some point I might add meth/water just because it's easy and accessable.. and I can controls then I use it (high rpms only to assist with detonation avoidance.)

 

I'm not attempting to debate anything, but your suggestion is really a stretch to come by without some serious advance ignition timing, given it's only 93 octane fuel. He almost certainly will need to go larger than that just to make a peak power number. Now, if if he wanted to do that with the E85 "sugar water" at a later stage, then sure, no problem at all. But, IMHO, that's giving false hope for something of that size. His goals need to be a bit more realistic.

 

N/a I was pushing 258whp after a Matt shue tune.. so i know 500 should be readily attainable.. my entire assembly is Brian Crower with every single bolt stud and but arp she has been cscd and balanced +/-1g

How much flow do I need.. my math says 54lbs (maxed out) but everyone else says 60lbs +

I got one turbo already I'm not looking to buy 3-4-5+ to get it right.. I want one and done.. good flow semi high efficiency.. and not push more then 16psi.. my current .57trim is rated at 666cfm my math says that should do it..

I'm not trying to debate I know what I have and that it does not work dispute math.. I need an alternative. 500 on pump is pushing it but is possible safely.. I want to max out on 93.. and I need a turbo that will get me there without being laggy or just flatlining my powerband

 

And i'm saying, you won't find such a combo, not without the side effects you want to avoid. There's math, and there's the experience that goes with applied sciences that involve math..

Just sayin'..

 

Always happy to listen to your critique ;-) Are you saying he'll need more than a "new gen" 62mm turbo which offers 70+ lb/min peak flow ? If I'm off the mark on 93 Octane requirements I need to understand the calculation.

 

I think the hang up with what the original poster is asking is trying to obtain 500hp on 16psi or less and still want a responsive turbo that's not laggy all done on 93 octane is a tall order. My 2.0L GSR made 502whp on 93 octane but that was on 19psi on a GT3076R after letting the car cool off after quite a few dyno pulls. So realistically the car was probably making 475whp give or take on 19psi. The 30R is probably one of the best street turbos in terms of response but it won't hit 500whp on 16psi or less. A nice size 62mm and happy dyno might get you there though.

 

That sums it up. But, how efficient is the F-series vs B-series? Running 25psi on the GTW3476 I am not entirely sure where my power is at still, but I can say I don't feel anywhere near 500 myself. On pump 93 I have my ignition advanced as far as I feel comfortable and from many tunes I have seen in the 500 range, I'm still many degrees off. I'm D though, but still.. I've given more boost and less timing and I'm no pro tuner, but I'm sure this isn't the *best* way to make that golden-efficiency power. I don't see a reliably safe 500hp tune happening on 93 and low boost, but again, I'm no pro.

 

It's not only tall, it's about old school Yao Ming, tall. Calculate all you want, but you're talking to those that have attempted it, even IMW found issues while attempting it.

 

The F20B is very similar to a K20A2. Several are making over 200whp+ with bolt ons and a tune N/A much like a stock K20a2. Of course it doesn't use 50 degree VTC like the k series but a pro 1 cam in these F20's can make 220+ N/A on 93.

Op, why the whp number? If you made 450-480whp you wouldnt know it wasnt 500whp. Chasing a number on a particular dyno makes no sense. If you dont want to spend the money, use the 57 trim.If you want quick spool. 450-500 ball park, etc. spend the money and you will be in the ballpark of what you desire but who cares if it makes a little less or little more.

 

Oh, nice! From my understanding, the K is almost efficient to a fault. Lol! So a proper boost setup on an F20 could *possibly* see at least close to that 500 mark on 93? I certainly agree with the rest of it you're saying; close is good enough. Lol

 

It seems the import scene is the only crowd that cares so much about numbers. The domestic guys usually do not know what the car makes and could care less. They street and track tune and make sure the tune/plugs/etc is on point and let it eat. The import scene will sell a brand new turbo that has never even been put on the car to purchase another turbo for a 1k quicker spool and 40whp at the same rpm. It's ridiculous lol.

 

I understand. I suppose part of that is due to the build flow plan; goal, budget, time, etc.. Gotta toss the number out there and try to obtain it. I see where one may get stuck on that. I'm guilty of it myself but seem to have come around on my second build when it all came together.. When really digging into the throttle, it felt like a champ in such a way I don't really want to see that number and find out I *could* be disappointed by what it shows vs how it feels. Lol

 

LOL this is so true, we put my car on the dyno and got the majority of the tuning setup without caring about how much peak whp it would make. The real tuning and adjustments happen at the track where you can dial everything in. Import guys are always so stuck on WHP numbers but are then scared shitless to take it to a track and see what it can really do.

I've never seen so many threads with calculator figures, lbs per min variations, spec sheets, flow charts trying to calculate what it may do on the street or track.

Focusing on numbers is dumb, good example is Locash Racing. These guys were able to run an 8.49 with a Precision 6270, there are guys with bigger turbo's, more horsepower that can't come close to that. Because WHP is not the only factor with going fast, everything else needs to be setup correctly if you want to achieve specific goals.

 

That's another good perspective: HP number doesn't matter much if you can't keep it on the track. Even you can attest to that one. Lol

 

Exactly, everything makes a difference, I can make good power but because my alignment was off that had a big impact on my last pass and not to mention my oil box spitting a ton of oil out of it.

So power didn't mean crap when your tires are rubbing on the quarter panels and oil is shooting out, which results in a slow 9.30 pass.

 

Agreed. However, your second point comes into play based upon the fact that many in the sport compact scene don't research and be realistic with their initial turbo choice/purchase. Many base their decision solely on some boostedboiz video or seeing a car that performed.how they wanted and only went by some general spec sheet, not understanding any reasoning behind that racer's choice.

"He's going as fast as I want to, so I'll copy 70% of that build".
Then they throw their money at it, and realize it's not what they were looking for. So, they wind up purchasing again. But not after first attempting to sell back or asking for a credit from their original vendor if they shipped their original mistake back

 

As other's have said, you don't want to go too big OP. F20Bs are total torqueless wonders below 4.5k even with an appropriately sized turbo.

 

So I went with a bw257sx-e .82ar t3.. 65lbs of flow my f20b is fully built balanced and css'ed it will never see a track and the borg is most efficient in the 20+psi range so I guess that is where I will be.. 500whp was the goal cuz it's a nice even streetable fun number.. but truth is as long as it is fast and fun I could give a **** lol.. lots of rich guys who make 10x what I do around here reving on my little prelude with there gt-r's and 370s and m3s and don't get me started on the vetts and mustang and camero bs.. I just wanna leave em behind me is all.. get a good laugh as my 20+ year old Honda as it rolls a 2020 whatever.. cuz I'm poor and ftw

MY BUILD:
F20b block csc'd and bored +1mm to 86mm bisimoto aries 11.5:1 high dome pistons h22 head (p13) full Brian Crower head.. including stage 2 camshaft. 87lb dual springs and Ti retainers. Egr block off balance shaft delete oversized cometic HG ferria 6k valves bronze guides.. custom hurricane rods (x-type with oil passeges to cool rings) skunk2 pro intake 500whp intercooler and now a t3 s257sx-e 7076 with .82ar exhaust housing

 

Good deal. Build it for yourself and nobody else. Will always be someone faster.

 

I will post Dyno numbers in a few weeks once the build it 100% and I get a Dyno date.. my builder (Infamous Motorsports) is 4 hrs away from me so.. yeah.. wish me luck.

 

Thats the comressed truth there.